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  • KTO on a naturalizer back in 1985

    Posted by Dr. ARUDOU, Debito on January 29th, 2008

    Hi Blog. Here’s something interesting–a person who naturalized due to bureaucratic exigency. My reasons are quite different, of course. And the procedure for me was easier as well. But I agree with him that even after naturalization “I just feel myself.” But of course I feel Japanese as well, FWIW. As I said, my motivations for naturalizing are fundamentally different.

    Anyone know what happened to this guy? It’s been twenty years. Courtesy Michael H. Fox. Arudou Debito in Sapporo

    (Click on image to expand in your browser.)
    ktooct86001.jpg
    ENDS

    11 Responses to “KTO on a naturalizer back in 1985”

    1. topaz Says:

      I saw him on TV a year or two ago on an evening variety show featuring a contest where they pitted a few tarento-type foreigners (or former foreigners) against each other to display their kanji skills. I remember it pretty well because I was wondering who he was and had to search google to find out. If I recall, his score was pretty close to zero and he got romped by Daniel Kahl, Patrick Harlan, and one other person I can’t remember.

    2. chris Says:

      here is his webpage
      http://www.ciari.com/

    3. Brian Says:

      He indicated that his motives for naturalizing was to continue his family name by having his (Japanese) wife (and supposedly children) take his surname.

      Correct me if I am mistaken, but my understanding is that when one naturals, they need to choose a Japanese name. That name may or may not be the “same” as before, but I think it needs to be in Japanese script (ie, kana / kanji). His surname was originally Ciari, and his Japanese webpage indicates that in Japanese it is チアリ. Thus, his legally recognized surname would be チアリ, not Ciari. I assume then that his family can only take the surname チアリ, again not Ciari. Also, when applying for a Japanese passport, I would think that his surname could only be romanized as Chiari, again not Ciari. Thus, in effect, he has not continued his surname Ciari but created a new one, チアリ (Chiari), which he shares with his family.

      I am unsure of the exact details, so please correct any errors.
      Are there any special circumstances taken into consideration for cases like this?

      –YOU ARE MISTAKEN, SORRY. WHEN I NATURALIZED IN 2000, IT WAS ALREADY POSSIBLE TO TAKE A VARIETY OF NAMES. YOU CAN TAKE A NAME IN KANJI, AS YOU SAY (AND I HAVE), OR YOU CAN TAKE NAME IN KANJI AND KANA (AS IN ラモス瑠偉), OR IN ROMAJI AND KANA (AS IN C.W. ニコール THUS WRITTEN). THE REMAINING STIPULATION IS THAT IF YOU TAKE A KANJI NAME, THEIR READINGS MUST BE JAPANESE READINGS. THUS COMMON KOREAN NAME KIM 金 CANNOT BE READ きむ、RATHER EITHER きん OR かね. WHICH IS WHY A LOT OF ZAINICHI KOREANS USE 金 IN A NAME COMPOUND LIKE KANEKO OR KANEMURA (AND CHINESE HAYASHI FOR LIM 林) FOR THEIR PUBLIC NAME. I DID THE SAME THING FOR YEARS, USED A TSUUSHOUMEI FOR PUBLIC AND A HONMYOU FOR OFFICIAL BUSINESS, LIKE MANY TARENTO (TOKORO JO-JI, BEAT TAKESHI, TAMORI) IN JAPAN. MR CIARI I ASSUME IS DOING THE SAME THING, WHICH IS PERFECTLY ALL RIGHT. BUT I RECKON THE LAWS WERE TIGHTER BACK THEN AND ROMAJI WAS NOT ALLOWED.

    4. KokuRyu Says:

      My wife has my (Western) last name in Japan, although I am unsure what family register she belongs to. While in Japan for ten years, I was only ever on a spousal visa, but I do believe I had some sort of register at city hall, with my last name. My son, who was born in Japan, and my wife were on register.

      –IF YOU ARE NOT A JAPANESE CITIZEN, SHE AND YOUR SON ARE STILL ON HER KOSEKI FAMILY REGISTRY. WITHOUT A KOSEKI LISTING, SHE WOULD NOT BE A JAPANESE CITIZEN ANY LONGER. YOU ARE LISTED IN THE TEXT OF HER KOSEKI AS MARRIED TO HER AND FATHER OF HER CHILDREN, BUT NOT PROPERLY AS “HUSBAND” IN THE “SPOUSE” COLUMN. SEE WHAT I MEAN AT
      http://www.debito.org/ayakoseki.jpg
      DEBITO

    5. Brian Says:

      Debito,

      Thanks for reply.
      I see that I was mistaken and appreciate the corrections.
      I was also unaware of the issue with non-Japanese readings for kanji. I can see how that could be a problem for some people wishing to naturalize.

    6. Daniel J. Says:

      My wife is in the process of legally changing her Japanese surname to my foreign one. She will be removed from her family’s koseki and put on her own. We want our children to have my last name while in Japan.

    7. chris Says:

      “Thus, his legally recognized surname would be チアリ, not Ciari. I assume then that his family can only take the surname チアリ, again not Ciari. Also, when applying for a Japanese passport, I would think that his surname could only be romanized as Chiari, again not Ciari. Thus, in effect, he has not continued his surname Ciari but created a new one, チアリ (Chiari), which he shares with his family.”

      Seems to me that Brian is correct. True Mr Ciari might be using his name as Ciari in the entertainment world, as a tsuushomei, but his official name will now be something in katakana or kanji surely. I have actually applied for naturalisation (waiting for the result) and I was given a choice of a kanji or katakana name to choose. I wasn’t given a choice of a romaji name. Didn’t realise that C.W 二コール was his naturalised name (with the C.W as romaji) but surely you couldn’t have the whole name in romaji as your legal name?

      –SURELY YOU CAN. AND I WAS TOLD AS SUCH IN 2000. MY NAME IS IN KANJI BECAUSE I WANTED IT THAT WAY, NOTHING MORE. I’M A KANJI OTAKU ANYWAY.

      HOLD OUT FOR THE NAME YOU WANT. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES. AND MAKE SURE IT’S SPELLED THE WAY YOU WANT IT IN ROMAJI. I WAS GIVEN QUITE A BIT OF HASSLE WHEN I WANTED MY PASSPORT TO BE ROMANIZED AS ARUDOU, NOT ARUDOH (HEPBURN STYLE). I HAD TO SIGN A DISCLAIMER AT THE LOCAL GAIMUSHOU PASSPORT OFFICE THAT ANY MISUNDERSTANDINGS ARISING FROM THIS ROMAJI RENDERING WOULD BE MY OWN RESPONSIBILITY. TOOK TWO HOURS OF NEGOTIATIONS, BUT I GOT IT. SHOW NO FEAR OF GOD AND YOU’LL GET IT. WHEN BUREAUCRATS SEE IT AS A CULTURAL ISSUE (WHICH IS WHAT THEY PUT MY, AS THEY NO DOUBT SAW IT, PASSIONATE OBDURACY DOWN AS), THEY WILL GIVE WAY.

      ANYWAY, CIARI-SAN WAS PROBABLY FACING DIFFERENT RULES TWENTY YEARS AGO, SO HIS CASE IS IN NO WAY INDICATIVE OF THE PRESENT DAY.

    8. adam w Says:

      ok,heres a question-if you naturalize do you and your wife have to have the same surname?

      –YES YOU DO. FUUFU BESSEI IS NOT ALLOWED BETWEEN JAPANESE COUPLES. MARRIAGE ENTAILS PUTTING BOTH PEOPLE ON ONE KOSEKI. NJ DON’T QUALIFY BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE KOSEKI.

    9. Tylar G Says:

      So, in a sense, Japan does not technically recognize marriage between a Japanese and NJ.
      IE, one of the spouses will not be listed on a koseki as the spouse.
      In other words, from the perspective of a koseki, which is essentially your legal identity, if you do not have a spouse, you are not married.

      –THAT’S RIGHT. AND IT’S ONE OF THE WORST THINGS ABOUT THE KOSEKI SYSTEM. IT ALSO DOESN’T ALLOW YOU TO GET A JUUMINHYOU EITHER–MEANING YOU HAVE TO BE A CITIZEN IN ORDER TO BE A RESIDENT.

    10. Steve Silver Says:

      My wife’s Japanese… I noticed that on the paper her name hadn’t been changed. When I questioned it, I was told that a Japanese person always keeps their own name if they marry a foreigner. I was quite angry – I had always been quite happy with my own name, and as the last male of my family I wanted it to be able to continue with my children. I asked them what I could do about it – how could my wife official change her name to mine. They hesitated a bit and said, “Well, you’ll have to get Japanese nationality.” “OK,” I replied, “I will.”

      So this man is angry because he’s not able to claim ownership over his wife by renaming her? That is the reason why he wanted to get Japanese citizenship? How disgusting. Why is he allowed to be happy with his own name but his wife is not? Did he even bother to ask his wife how she felt? Or is she just property to him? Forcing his wife to submit to a patriarchal naming process by forcing her to become a non-entity is his motivation?

      But a lot of people get nationality by being adopted by a Japanese person… I didn’t want to do it that way. I wanted to keep my own identity.

      I see. So it’s perfectly acceptable for his wife to be forced to give up her identity, but unacceptable for him to do the same. Fascinating.

      No wonder he wants to live in Japan. Too many of those uppity liberated women back in France, ne c’est pas?

    11. Brian Ciari Says:

      Hello, my name is Brian Ciari, and from what i understand growing up as a child, the few ciari’s that exist are all related. im just curious if we are ? my Father’s name is Robert Allen Ciari, His fathers name was Nello, ring any bell’s ???

      (805) 750-3046

      Thanks !

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