www.debito.org
GREGORY CLARK FABRICATES MATERIAL FOR HIS JAPAN TIMES COLUMN
AND REFUSES TO RETRACT OR CORRECT HIS ASSERTIONS


Collated by Arudou Debito, Japanese citizen, and one plaintiff in the Otaru Onsens Lawsuit
Reproduced here for the record, as GregoryClark.net Google Group has a history of deleting internet archives (
click here to see evidence)

Click to page down to
ORIGINAL CLARK JAPAN TIMES ARTICLE OF FEB 17, 2005
CITED USA TODAY MARCH 8, 2000 ARTICLE, ORIGINAL TEXT
CORRECTION AND RETRACTION REQUESTS FROM ORIGINAL AUTHOR OF CITED ARTICLE, AND CLARK'S RESPONSE
INSERTION: LETTERS OF PROTEST TO THE JAPAN TIMES, AND GREGORY CLARK'S RESPONSE
PROBLEMATIC CLARK COLUMN QUIETLY DELETED FROM JAPAN TIMES' ARCHIVE AFTER USA TODAY IS CONTACTED

FOOTNOTE: DELETED ARCHIVES ON GREGORYCLARK.NET GOOGLE GROUP
FOOTNOTE TWO: LINK TO "THE AUSTRALIAN" MAGAZINE ARTICLE ON GREGORY CLARK


ORIGINAL CLARK JAPAN TIMES ARTICLE OF FEB 17, 2005

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:22:28 +0900
From: Arudou Debito <debito@debito.org>
Subject: Gregory Clark column today: feud for thought

Hi All. Gregory Clark certainly has "abusive foreigners" on the mind these days. A mere four days after his Letter to the Editor in the Japan Times (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?rc20050213a3.htm), here he is again today, devoting his entire Japan Times column to the issue. Kind of.

This is, in some people's view, an abuse of his power as a columnist, conducting a personal feud through the top half of the Op-Ed page. A quick comment from me follows the article.

ARTICLE BEGINS
////////////////////////////////////////

RACIST BANNER LOOKS FRAYED
By GREGORY CLARK
Japan Times, Feb 17, 2005
Courtesy
http://www.japantimes.com/cgi-bin/geted.pl5?eo20050217gc.htm

Understanding Japan and the Japanese was never meant to be easy. This is especially true for the Japanese attitude to foreigners -- at times exclusivist and at other times extremely open. There is an answer to the seeming contradiction, but it requires outsiders to accept that the Japanese might have a value system just as valid as their own -- something many find hard to accept.

Back in the 1970s, when Canberra was determinedly trying to understand the nation that was suddenly supporting Australia's economy with large food and raw materials purchases, it gave the well-known author Hal Porter a generous cultural grant to travel around Japan and discover its people.

In his subsequent book, "The Actors," Porter describes the Japanese as a robotic people quite incapable of expressing genuine sentiment -- a surprising conclusion for anyone who has seen the animated faces of the Japanese crowds as they head home from work on a Friday evening.

Porter went on to write a nasty short story, "Mr. Butterfry," about a former Australian soldier who had stayed on from the Occupation days, married a Japanese woman and had two daughters. Porter met them and decided that these mixed-blood children, and their father, would have no future in exclusivist Japan.

If Porter were still alive, he would have discovered that one of the daughters had married an heir to the Bridgestone Tire family fortunes. The other married the politician Kunio Hatoyama, grandson of a former prime minister. And the ex-sergeant had gone on to a happy old age, fussed over by his family and others in Japan's elite.

Soon after, the Europeans weighed in with a famous report claiming the Japanese were a nation of workaholics living in rabbit hutches. Then, during the trade frictions of the 1980s, it was the turn of the Americans to bash Japan.

Perhaps the worst example was a Washington Post report claiming that a Tokyo store selling Sambo dolls proved that racist Japanese attitudes toward black people existed. It triggered a strong anti-Japan campaign in the United States -- until someone discovered that the offending dolls had come from the U.S. and were on sale there, too.

The Post went on to discover, back in the days when Japan was prospering and the U.S. economy was in trouble, that the Japanese had invented the term "bubei," or contempt for America. It even splashed the ideographs on its front page, which is just as well because we could not find them being used in Japan.

The newspaper USA Today followed up with a report from a Tokyo-based journalist saying the Roppongi fleshpots were riddled with "No Foreigner" and "Japanese Only" signs. Once again, no visible proof could be provided. When I checked with the author of the report, he complained how his copy had been deliberately changed by U.S. editors determined to believe such signs existed.

[NB: The article referred to is probably USA Today March 8, 2000, which neglects to mention riddling Roppongi fleshpot signs. See it at http://www.debito.org/hermancase.html Current visible proof at http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html ]

With the trade frictions largely ended, the banner has been passed to ultrasensitive foreigners here in Japan. They too complain of a rash of "No Foreigner" signs. What's more, they are determined to take legal action against the "racist" offenders. But when one checks out the claims, invariably it is a situation where some unfortunate Japanese proprietor has suffered severe damage or loss at the hands of foreigners, and does not want to see a repetition.

The landmark case almost a decade ago involved a jewelry shop owner in Hamamatsu, where many underprivileged Brazilians now live thanks to Japan's policy of allowing the kin of former Japanese migrants abroad to come and work in Japan. His display counters had become a favorite window-shopping target. There was also some shoplifting.

Eventually he felt he had no choice but to put up a sign saying "No Brazilians," only to be dragged through the courts, and heavily fined, by some of those ultrasensitive foreigners claiming he had violated a Tokyo-ratified U.N. convention banning racial discrimination.

Now we have the problems in Otaru, a Hokkaido port regularly visited by small rust-bucket Russian ships. A bathhouse that had suffered severe property destruction at the hands of drunken Russian seamen had felt it had no alternative but to put up a "No Foreigner" sign. It too was hit with a suit claiming it had violated the U.N. convention.

The litigious foreigners involved have now published a book, detailing their fight against yet another example of Japan's alleged racial discrimination (for a review, see the Jan. 30 article "Bathhouse pushes a foreigner into the doghouse"). [
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fb20050130a1.htm ]

Yet to anyone who visits Otaru and speaks to the seamen, as I have done, it should be obvious that, while these are very likable people, it is most unlikely that they would be able to respect the rituals and atmosphere of the Japanese bathhouse, even when sober. Japanese customers would begin to fade away. The owner would feel obliged to protect his business.

The failure of some foreigners here to realize that the Japanese, too, have their sensitivities seems alarming.


----------------------------------------

Gregory Clark is vice president of Akita International University. A translation of this article will be placed on www.gregoryclark.net. His book, "Understanding the Japanese," was published by Kinseido.

The Japan Times: Feb. 17, 2005

ARTICLE ENDS
////////////////////////////////////////

QUICK COMMENT FROM ARUDOU DEBITO: I am not a foreigner. Told you it was quick.


CITED USA TODAY MARCH 8, 2000 ARTICLE, ORIGINAL TEXT

Japan's foreigners fight back against widespread bias
They say they're denied access to loans, baths, bars


USA Today (March 8, 2000) Page 24A
By Peter Hadfield
Special for USA TODAY

TOKYO -- Americans living in Japan are hitting back at what they say
is the country's deeply embedded discrimination against foreigners.

Many are closely watching the case of Steven Herman, an American
broadcast journalist, who is suing Asahi Bank for turning him down
last year for a loan to buy a town house. Others have joined in an
effort to end discrimination against foreigners at some of the
hot-spring baths that Japanese cherish. If the challenges succeed,
it's likely there will be similar efforts made to open up the many
bars, restaurants and stores that try to keep out foreigners.

Herman is chairman of Foreign Press in Japan, which promotes freedom
of the foreign news media. He has lived in Japan for 10 years and says
he has a good credit record. At the time of his application, he was
engaged (now married) to a Japanese citizen. He declined to discuss
his salary but says he has a stable income that is ''comfortably
double'' that of a Japanese manager of his age. Such a manager would
earn the equivalent of about $100,000. That salary that doesn't go
nearly as far here, in one of the world's most expensive cities, as it
would in most U.S. cities.

''The bank wouldn't even accept the application,'' says Herman, 40, a
Nevadan. ''They say they have a secret manual that forbids them from
accepting an application from anyone who is not a citizen or a
resident of Japan.'' A bank spokesman declined to comment.

In the past, American residents -- who number around 100,000 of a
foreign population of about 1.2 million -- have accepted this kind of
discrimination as part of daily life. Many credit companies and real
estate agents have a policy of not dealing with gaijin, a term that
means ''outside person'' or non-Japanese.

University lecturers from abroad complain that their contracts offer
few of the benefits enjoyed by Japanese colleagues. Bars, hotels and
other establishments often post ''No foreigners'' signs on their
doors. In one humorous twist, a bar in Tokyo's nightlife district of
Shinjuku once had a sign that read: ''Club International -- No
foreigners allowed.''


Foreign residents say the government's attempts in the past decade to
encourage kokusaika, or internationalization, to integrate Japan with
the global community, is not backed up with laws. ''The Japanese
market decided to accept goods and investment from abroad,'' says
Yasushi Higashizawa, a human-rights lawyer who is handling Herman's
lawsuit. ''But I don't think Japan decided to accept people from
abroad. The system didn't adjust to living with them.''

Japan's Constitution, written in English with the help of American
occupying forces in 1946, is contradictory on the subject. The
English-language version says ''all of the people are equal under the
law and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or
social relations because of race, creed, sex, social status or family
origin.'' However, the Japanese version renders ''people'' as kokumin,
or citizens. It implicitly excludes non-Japanese.

Now, Higashizawa says, the social and political system is under
pressure to open up to foreigners, just as Japan's markets were forced
to open wider in the 1980s. In November, a Japanese court ruled for
the first time that non-Japanese are protected by a 1965 United
Nations convention against racial discrimination, which Japan signed
in 1996.

The decision came in a case involving Ana Bortz, a Brazilian
journalist who was ejected from a jewelry store. The storeowner
claimed that Bortz had been acting suspiciously. A video from a
security camera supported Bortz's claim that she wasn't. The store
also had posted a sign banning foreigners.

Because the owner was acting legally under Japanese law, Bortz's
lawyer based her case on international law. Few legal experts expected
Bortz to win because previous court verdicts had ruled that Japan's
laws supersede international law. In addition, Japanese courts are
famously conservative.

To the surprise of the legal community, Judge Tetsuro So, head of a
three-judge panel that took the case, followed the U.N. guidelines in
the absence of any domestic laws banning discrimination. Acting on
behalf of the panel, he ruled that Bortz had suffered under Japan's
anti-defamation laws, which apply to non-Japanese as well as citizens.
''This was an illegal act against an individual,'' So said. He added
that it was ''unfair'' to eject Bortz from the store simply because
she was Brazilian. He ordered the jewelry store owner to pay Bortz
damages of around $14,000.

Herman says Bortz's case inspired him to file his suit against Ashai
Bank because it indicated that the legal system ''was starting to look
at things differently.'' So far, though, his case has drawn little
attention from the Japanese media.

The Bortz case has also inspired other foreign residents to oppose
what many believe is legalized racism. A group called Issho Kikaku,
made up of expatriates promoting internationalization in Japan,
launched a campaign against hot-spring baths that exclude foreigners
in the northern port city of Otaru. A group of them toured the baths
last year.

''Some of the onsen (hot spring) managers were very apologetic . . .
that we weren't allowed in,'' says David Aldwinckle of New York, local
coordinator for the group. ''Others were downright rude.''

The owners say they are justified in barring foreigners because baths
are communal and Japanese customers dislike sharing them with
foreigners. They say some non-Japanese are not familiar with bathing
rituals, such as washing and rinsing before getting into the bath.
Aldwinckle says the answer to this is education, not discrimination.

After the campaign gained nationwide attention, three hot-spring bath
owners promised to change their policy, but only one did, Aldwinckle
says. Another merely changed the ''No Foreigners'' sign to one that
read: ''Due to various circumstances, we refrain from allowing
foreigners entry into the premises.''

Even so, Tony Laszlo, the founder of Issho Kikaku, says many foreign
residents now feel a shift in Japan against overt discrimination.

''Store owners and hotel managers will have to think twice before they
blatantly exclude foreigners because now they risk getting sued,''
Laszlo says. ''If Steven Herman wins his lawsuit, that will knock back
the barriers even further.''

USA TODAY ARTICLE ENDS


EXCHANGE BETWEEN PETER HADFIELD, AUTHOR OF THE CITED USA TODAY ARTICLE, AND GREGORY CLARK

Courtesy of GregoryClarknet Google Group
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/GregoryClarknet/browse_frm/thread/486d02f26727f7c5/02e41caa83d6b1a6#02e41caa83d6b1a6

Mar 4, 6:17 pm     show options
From: "Peter [Hadfield, author of the USA Today Article cited in Clark's Column]" - Find messages by this author
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 18:17:27 -0800
Local: Fri,Mar 4 2005 6:17 pm
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
Reply to Author| Forward| Print| Individual Message| Show original| Report Abuse

Greg,

Regarding your claims about what I wrote or said about 'No Foreigner'
signs in Roppongi, let me put this in perspective.

   I lived in Japan for 16 years and spent many, many evenings in
Roppongi. I only remember ever seeing one 'No Foreigner' sign in
all that time - just one -- and that was way back in the late 1980s.
So the idea that Roppongi is 'riddled' with such signs is patent
nonsense. There -- you have my views on the subject as clear as they
can be. Whoever told you Roppongi was 'riddled' with No Foreigner
signs based on a sandwich board in Shimbashi clearly doesn't visit
Roppongi much and doesn't know the geographical distinction between
the two areas, so I can assure you that was not me.

   So we start off on the same page. Neither of us believes such
claptrap. If you would care to know my personal view, I think racism in
Japan is no worse than in other countries like Britain or the United
States, but the big difference is that Japan is coming to terms with
how to 'legislate' it, and this is what makes the story interesting
from a journalist's point of view. Should it be legislated at all? Is
Japan turning into a litigious society like the United States, where
every sleight has to be compensated, and human interaction is
determined by laws rather than social convention?

  The problem is that the arguments are often simplified by the
overseas media because stories have to be simplified, fit on a page,
and be read by people who cannot possibly understand the complexities
of Japanese society. I have always had a big issue with that. It is
compounded by journalists who fly into Japan, spend a few days here and
then fly out again a few days later with what pass for 'insights.'

  So your main contention is valid, and there is plenty of evidence out
there to support it. The British tabloid press has an appalling record
on misrepresenting Japan - I even had to correct a British editor (on
the phone) who referred to the Japanese as 'Japs', and another who
asked how much geisha girls charge for a trick!

  So this is what I don't get: With all the very real evidence out
there to support your case, why do you need to invent quotes? You know
I speak as someone who agrees with much of what you write and has
always admired you as a radical thinker who is so often ahead of the
curve. But putting words into people's mouths purely as a device to
prove a point just undermines the point you are trying to make and
gives ammunition to your critics. If you were to talk to correspondents
like me who were on the front line you would get a host of examples
that back up your arguments.

  Likewise, you point to me as an example of someone who has never
bothered to learn the language, even though I have been interviewed in
Japanese on Japanese TV (which must make viewers wonder how I managed
it without the benefit of study!) If you want to prove that some
commentators on Japan never bother to learn the language - and
you're right! -- why not find one who actually fits this category,
and use him/her as an example?

  Getting back to the USA Today story, I once wrote in error about a
story in the Washington Post (see -- it happens to all of us), and
correspondent Tom Reid was quickly on the phone to correct me. I
verified his assertion, and the following week I wrote a correction in
my column. That's all there was to it, and I don't see the big
deal. Instead of this easy route you are putting the spurious
allegation about USA Today on your website and even taking the trouble
to translate it into Japanese, even though you are now well aware that
it is false. As they used to say, it's your trip, man, and if you
feel OK doing that then I can't stop you. Personally, I couldn't do
it. My philosophy has always been that you use facts to support your
position, and if the facts don't support it then examine the
position. I think your position has legs, and there are plenty of real
facts out there that'll beat anything you can make up!

   I am much more surprised at the Japan Times's refusal to publish
my letter of correction. There was a time when misinformation would be
corrected as a matter of priority, but sadly in the days of what one of
my editors calls 'new journalism' getting it right is not even
considered a virture. After so many battles to try to get truth into
print I am glad to be out of the business.

Best regards,
Peter




Gregory Clark   Mar 5, 1:31 am     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 18:31:11 +0900
Local: Sat,Mar 5 2005 1:31 am
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
Reply to Author| Forward| Print| Individual Message| Show original| Report Abuse

GregoryClarknet@googlegroups.c om writes:

Peter:  I have a problem following your argument.

First you admit you wrote an article saying hotels, bars and clubs across
Japan have no foreigner signs.  Now you say that in 16 years you only
found one no foreigner place in Roppongi.

Yet it there was anywhere in Japan which would have no foreigner signs, in
the old days especially, it would have been Roppongi.

I remember distinctly tackling you on the press reports here of your
article in USA Today (it must have been fairly hot to get played back
here) and you identified Roppongi as a place with no foreigner signs.
When I asked you where in Roppongi  I got the story about the Shimbashi
placard advertising a no foreinger sauna in Roppongi.

I was so taken with this story that I actually went to Shimbashi to find
the person and the sign.

It is just possible I am confusing you with someone else in all this, in
which case I apologise.But it is unlikely.

It is also just possible that the playback of your original story went out
of its way to identify Roppongi as a den of no foreigner places. IN which
case it is matter of confusing two different stories, but the point would
have been the same - someone was out to complain unfairly about Japanese
exclusivity.

You also complained bitterly about your story having been distorted, which
is why I blamed your editors rather than yourself. In short, your name was
not taken in vain by me, so I am not sure why you are complaining so
bitterly this time.

As for speaking Japanese, if you are fluent I apologise also.  But I have
known you for most of those 16 years and have never heard you speak
Japanese.

I told the Japan Times I had no objection to their running your letter,
and it should appear tomorrow,  with my response.

- Hide quoted text -


 

Peter   Mar 6, 5:31 pm     show options
From: "Peter [Hadfield] - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 17:31:53 -0800
Local: Sun,Mar 6 2005 5:31 pm
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
Reply to Author| Forward| Print| Individual Message| Show original| Report Abuse


Greg,

Thanks for your more considered reply. I will have to disagree with
several things you wrote in it, but I do so neither complaining nor
bitter. I am still the easy-going, jovial cove I always was in Japan,
so please read the following with the assumption that I am cheery and
smiling but willing to discourse.
    Here are snippets of what you wrote and my replies:

>First you admit you wrote an article saying hotels, bars and clubs
across
>Japan have no foreigner signs.

I never wrote or said ?hotels, bars and clubs across Japan have no
foreigner signs.? I think you should make quotes direct quotes and put
them in quotation marks rather than paraphrasing, because then we would
be debating what was actually written rather than an interpretation of
what was written. If you had done that four years ago and again last
month you would have quickly realised that this quote about Roppongi
being riddled with No Foreigner signs did not exist.
   To get the quote right in this case, it?s not a question of
?admitting? or ?denying? anything, the article is there for all to
read, and has been for the last four years. Again, the sentence ? one
sentence ? in the USA Today story that refers to No Foreigner signs
says: ?Bars, hotels and other establishments often post ?No Foreigner?
signs.?

>I remember distinctly tackling you on the press reports here of your
>article in USA Today (it must have been fairly hot to get played back
>here) and you identified Roppongi as a place with no foreigner signs.

I remember talking to you about it too. The reason for our conversation
was that you wrote a column in the Japan Times saying I had claimed in
the USA Today story that Roppongi was ?riddled? with No Foreigner
signs. I think you described me as ?a foreign journalist who has been
here for some time and should know better.?  I wrote you an e-mail
saying I had written no such thing, and it transpired that you had not
actually read the USA Today story but had got all your information from
an Internet forum. You accepted what I told you because I offered to
show you the USA Today story. Now, four years on, you have obviously
half-remembered the steamy controversy on the Internet forum but failed
to remember that the accusation was erroneous. You still seem to be
leaning towards a conviction that the Internet forum and your memory
surely can?t be wrong, and that the story which is on paper as plain as
day must be a trick of the eyes. I am telling you again I did not
?identify Roppongi as a place with no foreigner signs.? How can I put
this in more simple terms? We are not talking about our differing
recollections of an event, we are talking about whether words are
actually there, prima facae, in print, in black and white. I am telling
you that the words are simply not there in the USA Today story, or
anything like them.

>When I asked you where in Roppongi I got the story about the Shimbashi
>placard advertising a no foreinger sauna in Roppongi. I was so taken
with this story that I >actually went to Shimbashi to find the person
and the sign. It is just possible I am confusing >you with someone else
in all this, in which case I apologise.But it is unlikely

.

Well, scotch the Roppongi myth and you scotch this one too. Since I
didn?t write about signs in Roppongi I couldn?t possibly have answered
a question about where they were! If you had asked me I probably would
have said something like: ?I have no idea, Greg, because I?ve never
written about No Foreigner signs in Roppongi.? And I can tell you
categorically that I have never seen a No Foreigner sign on a placard
in Shimbashi because I would have remembered that. So you do have me
confused with someone else. But it?s a side issue, because this is
about what I am supposed to have written, and your whole premise is
about the way Japan is portrayed in the foreign media.

>It is also just possible that the playback of your original story went
out
>of its way to identify Roppongi as a den of no foreigner places.

I never read the Internet forum where you got your information (I think
it was on Dead Fukuzawa) but that was the conclusion we came to four
years ago. These are not the best places to rely on for hard facts.

>You also complained bitterly about your story having been distorted,
which
>is why I blamed your editors rather than yourself. In short, your name
was
>not taken in vain by me, so I am not sure why you are complaining so
>bitterly this time.
As

 I said, not bitter in either case. That banging sound you hear is my
head going up against a brick wall, because when I first alerted you to
the error what I got in return was not a correction (all I was asking
for) but more assertions on your website about alleged statements I
made in conversation, my failure to ever study Japanese and my apparent
proclivity to ?only find fault with Japan? (more on that later). Wrong
on all counts, but anyway a complete diversion from my simple request
for a correction.

   I acknowledge that my name was not taken in vain in your JT piece
but you have previously identified me (in the FCCJ, for example) as
someone who wrote that ?Roppongi is riddled with No Foreigner signs?
and all I want is for this to once again ? and hopefully once and for
all -- be acknowledged as erroneous.

   The sub-text of your post seems to be: Why are you complaining about
an error of fact? As if errors of fact in print -- not once, but
recurring -- are really no big deal. In which case, people like me
really should not be in the media business because if fiction can
legitimately be stated as fact then we are in the realm of accepting
the Fox News approach to truth.

   Besides, using ficticious examples to bolster a case only undermines
the case in the long run, because the credibility of all facts that
support the case become suspect. Making a correction is not an
admission that what you write may be full of errors, quite the
opposite. Every writer makes mistakes. Readers have much more
confidence in those who issue corrections because then they assume that
what is left on the page has been checked and is correct. I cannot
believe that is not your position too, and you do argue equally
passionately for truth in media, so why not extend that to your own
writing?

   Regarding your other point, I don?t think I would use the word
?distorted?, but as I told you four years ago I thought the USA Today
story came out unbalanced. Here?s a recap: My original pitch to USA
Today was for a story about the spate of lawsuits in Japan ? including
Ana Bortz, Steve Herman and the onsen guys ? which was news in Japan at
the time and therefore a very good news story for overseas. I never saw
this as being a simple issue. I can sympathize as much with onsen
owners whose livelihoods are put at risk as I can with well-behaved
foreigners who are refused entry. I can see the difficulty in
determining what is ?Japanese? in this day and age (a naturalised
Bengali?) and what is ?foreign? (a nisei who doesn?t speak Japanese?)
So what I loved about the story, from a journalist?s perspective, was
that there is no simple answer and there are layers to explore. The
problem was that I think editors at USA Today saw this story from an
American perspective, which was the fight against segregation and for
civil rights.

   Now before you get carried away I don?t think you can claim there
was any sinister plot or deliberate distortion by the editors to make
Japan look bad. They just had a different standpoint and it was
difficult to get across the idea that Japan is not the Deep South, and
the culture of  ?soto/uchi? is far more complex than simple racial
discrimination. This does not just apply to USA Today. I cannot
remember the number of times I?ve had to say to editors of various
papers ?It?s not quite like that? when they make assumptions about an
aspect of Japanese culture.

As for your other point that I can ?only find fault with Japan? I would
say my writing proves most conclusively that is not true. I spent 16
years there among people who are the most polite, honest and welcoming
of any I have met (and I have lived and worked in seven other countries
besides Japan). For the last eight years I have been writing the Down
to Earth column for the JAL airline magazine, and if you believe that
is full of fault-finding and anti-Japan sentiment then you need a
refresher course on the editorial policy of Japanese airline magazines!

   In my opinion columns (Daily Yomiuri, Japan Times Weekly and
Mainichi Daily News) I was certainly critical of the government or the
authorities for specific reasons, but you yourself are often equally
critical. I cannot see how my criticism is ?anti-Japan? and yours is
not. If you want to support such a contention then let?s have the
examples of my ?anti-Japan? writing and I?ll willingly debate it.

>As for speaking Japanese, if you are fluent I apologise also. But I
have
>known you for most of those 16 years and have never heard you speak
>Japanese.

I wouldn?t go the opposite extreme and say ?fluent,? but on a scale
between that and ?never bothering to learn the language? I would claim
to at least be closer to the former. My guess is that in the absence of
knowing whether or not I spoke Japanese you plumped for the latter
assumption because it fulfilled your expectations of the sort of
journalist you think I am. Then that assumption made its way into your
writing as a statement of fact. Be honest ? is that a fair assessment?
In which case it should be an object lesson in how assumptions and
faulty memories can find their way into print as fact, which is all
that I think has happened here.

Best regards,
Peter Hadfield


 

Gregory Clark   Mar 7, 2:39 am     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 19:39:40 +0900
Local: Mon,Mar 7 2005 2:39 am
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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Peter:  It was not an Internet discussion.  Your article was played back
in the press here

(At the time I was not switched on to Internet.  Indeed, I don't think DFS
was operating at the time.)

(My first involvement with DFS, or any site for that matter,  was in the
very late nineties.)

I rang you on the basis of the press story, and I am sure it was then that
I got the Roppongi and Shinbashi affairs from you.
It was on this basis that, in my JT story,  I felt justified in assuming
that Roppongi bars were indeed the basis of your story.
Here it is not your story versus my memory.  It is your memory versus mine.

And since it is much more likely that a questioner will have a stronger
memory reflex than the person being questioned, then I have to insist that
it is highly likely that I got it right.

There is no way I would want to invent  the Shimbashi side of things.

The only possible way out is that someone else mentioned Shimbashi, and as
I say if that is the case I apologise.  But I insist, that in the followup
to your article both many bars, clubs in Roppongi, and  Shimbashi,  were
mentioned to me, and I can only assume that this happened in my
conversation with you at the time.

Greg



Peter
  Mar 7, 3:16 pm     show options
From: "Peter" <peterhadfiel...> - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:16:07 -0800
Local: Mon,Mar 7 2005 3:16 pm
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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Greg,

That?s fine, honestly. I have never suggested you invented the
conversation about Shimbashi, only that it must have been someone else
who told you about the sign. I think I can clear that little mystery up
later but, as I said, the conversation is not the issue. The issue is
what you wrote in the JT and have copied and translated onto your
website:

   ?The newspaper USA Today followed up with a report from a
Tokyo-based journalist saying the Roppongi fleshpots were riddled with
?No Foreigner? and ?Japanese Only? signs. Once again, no visible proof
could be provided. When I checked with the author of the report, he
complained how his copy had been deliberately changed by U.S. editors
determined to believe such signs existed.?

   I still don?t know if you now understand that no such claim was ever
made in USA Today. I am far less concerned about how the mistake came
about than I am about than why it has not been removed or corrected.

Best regards,
Peter


 
Gregory Clark   Mar 7, 4:11 pm     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 09:11:38 +0900
Local: Mon,Mar 7 2005 4:11 pm
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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GregoryClarknet@googlegroups.c om writes:

Peter:  I repeat.  The USA Today article about NO Foreigners was played up
big here in Tokyo. I followed it up. It just possibly may not have been
you, but in the context of following up I got the remark about Roppongi
being riddled with No Foreigner signs, and the Shimbashi guy as proof.

Maybe I was remiss in making it look as if the story itself said that, but
as far as I was concerned the original story (which was not available in
Tokyo) and the preson with whom I followed it up were one and the same,
and I ran it that way.

I could have named you as the source, to the extent that I remembered you
were the source.  But since the conversation was private that would have
been unethical. And since I still feel we are friends it would have been
hurtful.

Greg

Gregory Clark
Head, Research Japan Office
S603 Ark Hills Executive Tower
1-14-5 Akasaka
Minato-ku, Tokyo
107-0052
Tel: 03-3586-4147
Fax: 03-3586-4148
www.gregoryclark.net
www.gregoryclark.net/nakadaki


 

Peter   Mar 8, 1:38 am     show options
From: "Peter" <peterhadfiel...> - Find messages by this author
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 01:38:05 -0800
Local: Tues,Mar 8 2005 1:38 am
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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Greg,

OK, thanks. I think that after three weeks I have at last a grudging
acceptance that no such words appeared in the USA Today story, judging
by this one line in your post: ?
Maybe I was remiss in making it look as
if the story itself said that

.?  Of course, you and I both know there
is no ?maybe? about it.  You did, after all, use it as an example of
how foreign media reports on Japan are sloppy and inaccurate (ooh ? the
irony!) But that?s life, and as I said we all make mistakes. All I ever
asked for was an acknowledgement that no such claim was made in USA
Today and a correction (one out of two, so far).  And of course I still
consider you a friend -- our disagreement on this has been purely
professional.
   I also appreciate that you left my name out to hide my blushes ?
both times. But since I never wrote such nonsense in the first place
there were really no blushes to hide. To be honest I would rather be
criticized directly for something I did write rather than anonymously
for something that I did not, but I appreciate your good intentions.

   Just to clear up a side-issue, you wrote that you could not have
heard about the USA Today story on the Internet because your first
involvement with the DFS was not until the very late 90s. But the USA
Today story was published after that, in March 2000, so you were indeed
a member when this steamy controversy hit the DFS. The reason I say you
got your info from the forum is because that?s what you told me, after
I had sent you an e-mail correcting the Roppongi mention in your JT
piece. You blamed me for the error (!) for not having stepped into the
on-line debate to correct those who claimed the USA Today story said
Roppongi was riddled with No Foreigner signs. I said I did not step in
because I didn?t know the debate was going on ? I had long since
departed the DFS. Apparently the debate was raging between those who
said the USA Today ?claim? was rubbish and those who claimed that
Roppongi was indeed full of No Foreigner signs. Both sides, of course,
were miserably wrong, and I strongly suspect that one of them may have
mentioned the Shimbashi sign or even spoken to you about it.

    Does this ring any bells? You can check it out with people who were
members of the DFS at the time, or any other Internet fora you joined.
There may indeed have been press reports as well, but I have no
knowledge of these. This does not change the error, but it does shed
light on how it came about.

   One other thing you may remember:  After you acknowledged the
mistake on your first Roppongi-riddled-with-No-Forei gner-signs piece in
the JT, in 2000, I was at a get-together near Nakadaki and you came
armed with a bunch of flowers. When I saw you coming up the path I
joked that you didn?t have to apologize with flowers (no, they weren?t
for me.) It was then that we had our conversation about the USA Today
story in more detail. Does this also ring any bells?

   I am only writing all this to clear up the obvious differences that
have come up between our recollection of events, but it is not really
that important to me in the context of the error in print.

   By the way, if you want to know my philosophy towards the ?No
Foreigner? phenomenon, I?ll tell you a parable . . . .  I was once
taking a film director location-hunting in Golden-gai and we went into
a tiny bar with six seats and a counter. The mama-san immediately waved
us away, telling us foreigners were not welcome. I smiled and said I
understood completely. I chatted to her about how difficult it must be
to cope with outsiders who don?t speak the language or understand the
rules. I complimented her on the bar. I made a few jokes. Soon she was
pouring us drinks. By the time we left, towards midnight, she was
urging us to come back and visit again.

   I do not begrudge the feelings and passions of those who are
indignant at being shut out, but I discovered long ago my own way to
break down the No-Foreigner barriers in Japan, and it usually works.

Best regards,
Peter


 

Gregory Clark   Mar 8, 3:59 am     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:59:13 +0900
Local: Tues,Mar 8 2005 3:59 am
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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GregoryClarknet@googlegroups.c om writes:

Peter:  Thank you for your very civilized rebuke.

It is a change from the gangreous crap that comes from some of those
bathhouse fanatics.

Come to think of it, you may even be right about the DFS connection,
though I think I only got involved there well after the controversy over
the USA Today article.

(I only got involved when the fanatics did a knife job on me over a piece
I did for JT on the Hamamatsu affair).

In which case we should blame it all on  my galloping senility.

But the fact is that your article did get a big playback here, and I do
remember questioning you on it, and you being rather defensive.

Re your Japanese ability, I can believe that you speak some - maybe more
than a lot of other freelancers - though I never got to hear it in
anything like full operation.  And with due humility, I do not believe a
journalist can operate here properly without fluency, and that includes
being able to read newspapers here easily.

Very, very few can do that. And I do not blame them.  It is almost
impossible for someone to come in here cold as a mature adult and while
holding down a fulltime job find the time to master the language properly.

If I have had any progress it was because I came here knowing Chinese, and
I had quite a lot of spare time and incentive to teach myself the
language.

Thank you the nice story about the flowers.

Greg

INSERTION: LETTERS TO THE JAPAN TIMES AND GREGORY CLARK'S RESPONSE

READERS IN COUNCIL
Faulty critique on discrimination
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?rc20050309a1.htm

In his Feb. 17 article, "Racist banner looks frayed," professor Gregory Clark referred to my story in USA Today four years ago about the discrimination against foreigners in Japan. Despite my correcting him previously on this, he is still getting it wrong.

Clark complains that "no visible proof could be provided" for the claim in USA Today that "Roppongi fleshpots were riddled with 'No Foreigner' and 'Japanese Only' signs." The reason for the lack of proof is simple: The USA Today story never said any such thing. The only thing it said in relation to signs was one sentence that read: "Bars, hotels and other establishments often post 'No Foreigner' signs." That was it. No reference to Roppongi and no mention of the word "riddled." To go on to suggest that USA Today editors "deliberately changed" the copy "determined to believe such signs existed" is, ipso facto, nonsense.

If Clark wants to continue writing about this claim, I still think he should actually read the story he is critiquing. I'll gladly send him a copy. I have the greatest respect for Clark, but I would suggest that in his eagerness to discredit the foreign media maybe he is determined to believe that such quotes existed.

Clark is correct, however, in stating that I was not happy with the published article in USA Today. My original proposal was a story about three antidiscrimination lawsuits that were making front-page news in Japan at the time. As often happens, the editors in Washington saw some hidden depths there, with the result that the story tended to simplify the complex attitude of Japanese toward foreigners in their midst.

PETER HADFIELD
Hamble, England
The Japan Times: Mar. 9, 2005



READERS IN COUNCIL
Fueling antiforeigner sentiment
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?rc20050309a2.htm

I read Gregory Clark's Feb. 17 article with great interest, since I was one of the plaintiffs in the Otaru (Hokkaido) Onsen lawsuit. Clark writes: "A bathhouse that had suffered severe property destruction at the hands of drunken Russian seamen had felt it had no alternative but to put up a 'No Foreigner' sign. It too was hit with a suit claiming it had violated the U.N. convention."

This is not true. The bathhouse in Otaru that was sued by the three plaintiffs did not suffer any property destruction by foreigners. The court documents do not mention property destruction. There is no police report either. The bathhouse put up the "Japanese Only" sign more or less from day one of their business.

By leaving the false impression that the bathhouse had suffered "severe property destruction," Clark portrays me as someone trying to profit off a victim of violence. Is it too far-fetched to think that some sick elements in this society might read Clark's articles and, after thinking that even a famous foreigner like Clark hates the plaintiffs, go one step further? My property has been vandalized (three times in six months) in such a way that my family and I have felt as if our lives were threatened. I don't know that these incidents are related to the lawsuit, but I'm guessing the chances are high that they are.

I did not make the decision to sue the bathhouse lightly. I knew of the possible consequences. My family and I were willing to take the risks. Those risks are already high enough. We don't need someone as intelligent and influential as Clark pouring oil on the fire of antiforeign sentiments by spreading rumors.

By the way, I have not written a book about my experiences, as Clark's remark about "litigious foreigners" suggests.

OLAF KARTHAUS
Sapporo
The Japan Times: Mar. 9, 2005



READERS IN COUNCIL
Gregory Clark replies
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?rc20050309a3.htm

To letter No. 1: Peter Hadfield neglects to mention that, in a conversation with me following sensational press reports here about his article and its claim that "hotels, clubs and bars" across Japan were publicly excluding foreigners, he claimed there were indeed many places in Roppongi that did bar foreigners. When I asked for evidence, he said he had heard how someone outside Shinbashi station touting for a Roppongi sauna was carrying a placard that said foreigners were excluded. Hadfield has now sent me a copy of his original article, and I note that it mentions Shinjuku, not Roppongi, as the scene of alleged exclusions.

Regarding the second letter: My remarks were not directed at Olaf Karthaus. They were directed at another of the plaintiffs who on an Internet site some years ago had said he would take legal action against the owner of a foreigner-refusing Otaru bathhouse, despite the fact that he knew it had suffered severe damage at the hands of drunken Russian seamen.

A bathhouse owner who then took what many would see as legitimate measures to prevent a repeat of such damage was indeed subsequently dragged through the courts and heavily fined. It is my understanding that there was also legal action by Karthaus and others against Otaru city on the bathhouse issue despite admitted damage to bathhouses in the city.

GREGORY CLARK
Tokyo

The Japan Times: Mar. 9, 2005
(The opinions expressed in this letter to the editor
are the writer's own and do not necessarily reflect
the policies of The Japan Times.)





Peter   Mar 11, 3:08 am     show options
From: "Peter" <peterhadfiel...> - Find messages by this author
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 03:08:04 -0800
Local: Fri,Mar 11 2005 3:08 am
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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Greg,

When you wrote a few days ago that the JT was going to print your
?response? at the end of my letter I had a feeling it was not going to
be a gracious acknowledgement of error. You know, of course, that the
USA Today story did not mention No Foreigner signs riddling Shinjuku
any more than it did Roppongi, which is why you chose not to trust JT
readers with the actual quote from USA Today to prove it. So here it
is:

    ?In one humorous twist, a bar in Tokyo's nightlife district of
Shinjuku once had a sign that read: ?Club International ? No foreigners
allowed.??


   There is really no point in me arguing that ?one sign? and ?once?
hardly amounts to claiming that Shinjuku, Roppongi or anywhere else is
riddled with signs, because you already know that. The point of your
response was not intelligent debate but to maintain the fiction among
JT readers that you did not, in fact, make a mistake.

   On top of that, stating that I ?neglected to mention? a conversation
that you have since accepted may have been with someone else is not the
act of a gentleman.

   So this is what I don?t get. Is it essential that Japan Times
readers have to believe you are totally infallible? Why?

   You could simply have put a simple five-word footnote to my JT
letter -- ?Greg Clark acknowledges the error? ? and moved on. Does it
stick in your craw so badly? You?ve been decent enough to acknowledge
the error on this website and I think I?ve been very gracious in
accepting that mistakes happen to all of us. But as I said before, you
are giving ammunition to your critics who will point to this as an
example of someone who will fabricate facts to support an argument and
refuse to publicly acknowledge error, even when he does so privately.
It?s a shame, because I think such a reputation is not worthy of you.

   It doesn?t anger me, bother me, or make me bitter, I just find it
incomprehensible.

Best regards,
Peter



 

Gregory Clark   Mar 18, 4:49 pm     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:49:12 +0900
Local: Fri,Mar 18 2005 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: In response to Mr. Clark's Feb. 13 letter to Japan Times
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Peter:  Since we are colleagues let me be frank.

You wrote an article that was played back here big in Japan, giving the
impression that No Foreigner signs were numerous in Japan. If you did not
write that, or if your copy was messed up, is it not you who is obliged in
the first place to start pushing out corrections?

I agree that my recollection might be blurred. I know we talked about your
article, and in rather vigorous terms. And you defended the article. The
Roppongi being riddled, and in particular the Shimbashi station thing
could have come up in a vigorous DFS debate that followed. If those posts
were not yours then I apologise. But I would have to go back to find out.

As far as I am concerned, Roppongi and Shimbashi all came up in the
context of someone writing a rather strange article in USA Today and
someone trying to defend the article.  And that is how I wrote it. I did
not mention your name; it was you who wanted to put yourself in the
limelight.  If as a result wrong impressions are created about your good
self it is not entirely my responsibility.

The fact is there are people out there, yourself included it seemed, who
believed No Foreigner signs were common in Japan. Well, as far as I am
concerned that is not only wrong.  It is all part of gaijin paranoia about
exclusivist Japan - the topic of my article.

I note that you guys are very happy to nit pick over other peoples
material, but do very little self-reflection over your own paranoic
mistakes. To paraphrase (was it Nixon?) mistakes in the cause of
rubbishing Japan are not really mistakes since Japan deserved to be
rubbished in the first place. .

Greg


JAPAN TIMES WITHDRAWS CLARK'S COLUMN


Mr. Clark's Feb. 17 column withdrawn from Japan Times

Only 1 message in topic - view as tree

SS   Mar 25, 7:08 pm     show options
From: "SS" <sgsil...@gmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:08:07 -0800
Local: Fri,Mar 25 2005 7:08 pm
Subject: Mr. Clark's Feb. 17 column withdrawn from Japan Times
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Courtesy of GregoryClark.net Google Group
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/GregoryClarknet/browse_thread/thread/51cfb1af6dd70ac8/a6055e19fd3bab6d?tvc=2#a6055e19fd3bab6d


It appears that Mr. Clark's Feb. 17 column, "Racist Banner Looks
Frayed," has been withdrawn by the Japan Times from its website. Links
to the article appear with an error message, and a list of Mr. Clark's
columns on the site does not include the column. I am pleased to see
that the Japan Times has apparently recognized the distortions and
fabrications in this column and decided to pull it from their site. I
hope that this is part of an effort by the paper to reevaluate Mr.
Clark's position as a columnist.

Of course, Mr. Clark still continues to publish the original article
and translation on his website without correction and refuses to
publicly acknowledge his errors, all the while handing out his usual
personal attacks and cries of "nitpicking" to those who call on him to
take responsibility.

Mr. Clark's credibility is non-existent, and continuing to keep him on
as a columnist does damage to the credibility of the Japan Times as
well. One cannot read his articles anymore without wondering if his
claims are indeed accurate or just another fabrication to back up his
opinion. If a journalist has to maintain a fiction in order to support
his position, then perhaps he has to reevaluate his position -- and his
choice of profession as well.

Steve Silver
End of messages  



NB: As of April 21, 2005, this post remains unanswered, and the abovementioned Japan Times article remains on Gregory Clark's website.

USA Today article author Peter Hadfield confirms:

USA Today was concerned about such an obvious piece of fiction and was planning to write to the Japan Times, but no letter from them has been published. Neither did the Japan Times publish a letter from Peter Hadfield correcting Clark's response to his previous letter.





FOOTNOTE
DELETED ARCHIVES AT GREGORYCLARK.NET GOOGLE GROUP

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/GregoryClarknet/browse_frm/thread/557f38e1a4b13fb1/c83951ef0a09769a#c83951ef0a09769a



(Source: GregoryClarknet Google Group)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/GregoryClarknet/browse_frm/thread/8233518c173eb025/40dfc55489e7e57e#40dfc55489e7e57e

DS
  Jan 31, 5:41 am     show options
From: "DS" <d_Sweet...@hotmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 05:41:35 -0800
Local: Mon,Jan 31 2005 5:41 am
Subject: What happened?
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Just came to check in here, and the place has been sanitized.  What
happened to the other discussion topics?

Cheers;

DS

 


petrad@gmail.com   Jan 31, 6:09 am     show options
From: "pet...@gmail.com" <pet...@gmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 06:09:05 -0800
Local: Mon,Jan 31 2005 6:09 am
Subject: Re: What happened?
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Maybe the owner of this discussion group is ashamed of what he wrote
here.

 



Gregory Clark   Feb 2, 1:14 am     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:14:57 +0900
Local: Wed,Feb 2 2005 1:14 am
Subject: Re: What happened?
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GregoryClarknet@googlegroups.c om writes:

>Maybe the owner of this discussion group is ashamed of what he wrote
>here.

On the contrary, he regrets only what he did not write.  So here goes:

There exists in Japan a kind of foreigner, mainly white Anglosaxon, who
comes to Japan and finds the going tough.  It does not occur to him that
in some cases the blame may be with himself. Or that anyone trying to make
it in this unusual society will find obstacles.

Instead he blames it all on Japan, and the Japanese people. He feels he is
not getting the respect and the breaks to which he is entitled, especially
as a white, Anglosaxon.  He feels discriminated against.

(I keep all this in the masculine, mainly because women are usually more
sensible and tolerant about these things. Ditto for non-whites, who
sometimes do suffer quite considerable discrimination.)

Worse, he does not realise that for every obstacle in Japan, there are
often several openings, especially for white Anglosaxons. That is why he
got his job in the first place – usually  as an English language teacher,
copy writer or academic.

No, the problem lies with Japan, not with himself.

And so off he goes, a bizarre mixture  of  Don Quihote looking for
windmills to tilt at, and Joan of Arc looking for flames on which
immolate.

It is immature.  It is racist. And as I said before, Japan  and the rest
of us who have come to know and appreciate Japan, for all its faults, do
not need to have to put up with this nonsense.

Is that sufficient as an answer to your question?

GC

Gregory Clark
Head, Research Japan Office
S603 Ark Hills Executive Tower
1-14-5 Akasaka
Minato-ku, Tokyo
107-0052
Tel: 03-3586-4147
Fax: 03-3586-4148
www.gregoryclark.net
www.gregoryclark.net/nakadaki

This thread continues at
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/GregoryClarknet/browse_frm/thread/8233518c173eb025/40dfc55489e7e57e#40dfc55489e7e57e


Separate thread:


(Source: GregoryClarknet Google Group)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/GregoryClarknet/browse_frm/thread/557f38e1a4b13fb1/c83951ef0a09769a#c83951ef0a09769a

petrad
  Feb 1, 11:05 pm     show options
From: "petrad" <pet...@gmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 23:05:55 -0800
Local: Tues,Feb 1 2005 11:05 pm
Subject: The deleted thread archived
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The thread that Mr.Clark erased can be found archived here:

http://www.geocities.com/grego ryclarkdotnet/Gregory_Clark_Di scussion_...
Everyone is welcome to read it and judge for themselves.

 

Gregory Clark   Feb 2, 1:22 am     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:22:29 +0900
Local: Wed,Feb 2 2005 1:22 am
Subject: Re: The deleted thread archived
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GregoryClarknet@googlegroups.c om writes:

>The thread that Mr.Clark erased can be found archived here:

>
http://www.geocities.com/grego ryclarkdotnet/Gregory_Clark_Di scussion_...
>Everyone is welcome to read it and judge for themselves.

So you want to get down in the gutter too.  Thank you for the helping know
whom you people are.


Gregory Clark
Head, Research Japan Office
S603 Ark Hills Executive Tower
1-14-5 Akasaka
Minato-ku, Tokyo
107-0052
Tel: 03-3586-4147
Fax: 03-3586-4148
www.gregoryclark.net
www.gregoryclark.net/nakadaki
 




petrad   Feb 2, 2:49 am     show options
From: "petrad" <pet...@gmail.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:49:10 -0000
Local: Wed,Feb 2 2005 2:49 am
Subject: Re: The deleted thread archived
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I am helping the people to know who you are. No comments, nothing -
just plain text of what you wrote. If exposing this to the public is
"getting down in the gutter", then guess who is in the gutter.

 


Gregory Clark   Feb 2, 3:16 am     show options
From: "Gregory Clark" <g...@ringo.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 20:16:20 +0900
Local: Wed,Feb 2 2005 3:16 am
Subject: Re: The deleted thread archived
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Your guess is as good as mine.



(Thread ends, with no further response as of April 21, 2005)

FOOTNOTE TWO: LINK TO "THE AUSTRALIAN" MAGAZINE ARTICLE ON GREGORY CLARK

"OUR OTHER MAN IN JAPAN"
Courtesy of The Australian Magazine
16th October 1993, Edition 1. pp 26-41

SUBTITLE: "He isn't our ambassador, but he'd like to be. Invariably, Gregory Clark is the Australian the Japanese turn to for advice about themselves and other issues. What riles him is that Australians don't."

http://www.debito.org/HELPSpring2001.html#clarkarticle

Back to the Cover Page

"The Community" Page

Go to the "Residents Page"

Go to the "Activists Page"