mytest
UPDATES ON TWITTER: arudoudebito
Hi Blog. Here’s a good article describing issues of health insurance and pensions, and how recent revisions clarifying that every resident in Japan (including NJ) must be enrolled may expose the graft that employers have been indulging in (“opting out” of paying mandatory social security fees, encouraging NJ not to pay them, or just preying on their ignorance by not telling them at all) to save money. The problem is, instead of granting an amnesty for those employees who unwittingly did not pay into the system, they’re requiring back payments (for however many years) to enroll or else they get no visa renewal! Once again, it’s the NJ employee who gets punished for the vices of the employer. Arudou Debito in Sapporo
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THE ZEIT GIST
New law: no dues, no visa (excerpt)
Enrollment in Japan’s health insurance program tied to visa renewal from 2010
The Japan Times, Tuesday, July 28, 2009
By JENNY UECHI
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090728zg.html
In your wallet or somewhere at home, do you have a blue or pink card showing that you are enrolled in one of Japan’s national health and pension programs? If not, and if you are thinking of extending your stay here, you may want to think about a recent revision to visa requirements for foreign residents. The changes, which the Justice Ministry says were made in order to “smooth out the administrative process,” may have major consequences for foreign residents and their future in Japan.
On a drab, rainy Sunday in June, a group of foreign workers gathered at the office of the National Union of General Workers Tokyo Nambu in Shimbashi to discuss an equally drab topic: social insurance. According to a new immigration law passed by the Diet earlier this month, foreign residents will be required to show proof of enrollment in Japan’s health insurance program in order to renew or apply for a visa after April 1, 2010…
The bottom line is that all residents of Japan … have to be enrolled in one or other of the two systems. The revised visa laws, therefore, should pose no threat to anyone’s visa renewal, because every foreigner in Japan should already be enrolled. However, the reality is that most foreigners in Japan do not have either form of insurance…
Louis Carlet, deputy secretary of Nambu, laid it down for everyone in the room to understand. There are a few basic things that all foreigners in Japan have to know, he explained: first, that everyone over the age of 20 in Japan is required to enroll in an approved Japanese government health insurance scheme and pension fund. If you are under 75 and working at a company that employs more than five people, this most likely means the shakai hoken (social insurance) program; if you are unemployed, self-employed or retired, the equivalent system is thekokumin kenko hoken and kokumin nenkin (national health insurance and pension). The only people exempt are sailors, day laborers, and those working for companies employing less than five people, or for firms without a permanent address (e.g. a film set).
The two systems cover different ground, all of which is explained in detail at www.sia.go.jp/e/ehi.html….
Rest of the article at:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20090728zg.html
102 comments on “Japan Times: NJ visas now contingent on enrollment in Japan’s health insurance program starting April 2010”
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Just thinking out loud…..
If the DPJ wins the election at the end of this month, what are the chances of this new law being delayed or altered in some way?
I also find it disconcerting that my employer’s silence on this issue is quite deafening. Are a lot of these companies attempting to make backroom deals with the government? I called my head office yesterday, and I got the run-around.
They “didn’t know” what I was talking about.
Per my previous post on this topic, and if the law stands AS IS, then I feel strongly that many long term NJs will be canned in the name of “a bad economy” in order to avoid the additional costs that could and would be inflicted on these companies. Either this scenario will play out, or it will be mixed with a dose of corporate bankruptcies.
@JP:
You have two situations confused.
Kousei Nenkin (employee plan) is slightly different from Kokumin Nenkin. Kousei has two parts: one of them is the same as the national pension. The other part is a sliding scale pension like U.S. social security.
Everyone in kousei gets their kokumin nenkin automatically credited based on their withholdings.
You are right that the top scale is 47,585 yen or so, at least until September when it will go up again. The employer is usually chipping in at least half. Even when you are in the lowest bracket of the program, which is about 7,500 yen a month, you see how your share and the employers share make 15,000 yen and that would cover the kokumin nenkin amount.
BUT, if you are NOT enrolled in a kousei nenkin type program, then you MUST pay kokumin nenkin if you are resident here and between ages 20 and 60. So that was my point to Doug I believe. He said he wasn’t in the national pension because it was a burden on an otherwise profitable company employing many Japanese. But I asked if 14,660 yen a month (tax deductible by the way) was going to break him?
You are right: Kousei nenkin has payment bands higher than 14,660 yen. But only if your company has this kind of plan. Otherwise you are supposed to be in the kokumin nenkin regardless.
http://www.pasona.co.jp/news/job/2009/09022701.html
The kousei nenkin schedule, combining both health insurance and pension insurance withholdings looks like the one on the link. You see your 47,585 there, starting at Line 34. The health insurance bands in that company keep going up to a higher point—I think each company program is different. But here, I was just talking about KOKUMIN nenkin.
As you see, if you are even a mid wage eikaiwa worker in Japan, it is much better for an employee to be in a kousei nenkin plan than have to foot the 14,660 yen him- or herself.
@ JP:
PS – on the Pasona chart, even though the bands quickly rise about 14,660 yen, the formula for the benefit is different (and much more favorable) than the basic national pension. It’s complicated, and if I have time to blog about that in the future, I will.
Hi Chuckers –
Thanks for the info and the link, I appreciate your kind help.
That certainly is a big stick potential punishment: Employers who refuse to process the
Koyou Hoken card can be fined 30man yen and can be emprisoned for 6 months, wow.
OK, now how about the “carrot” to positively motivate him: Does anyone have a link that
explains that one can legally enroll in Koyou Hoken WITHOUT having to enroll in Nenkin?
Steve:
Because Koyou Hoken and Nenkin are run by 2 seperate government
offices, there *shouldn’t* be any need to be in one without the
other. I have been in Kousei Nenkin without being in Koyou Hoken
before they closed the loop hole. If I hadn’t changed jobs, I
would still be in that situation.
Your employer *does* have to tell Hello Work your Visa status as a foreigner
(unless you are a Special Permanent Resident visa holder.) That
law went into effect 2007-10-1.
The *might* be some financial inscentives for enrolling certain
types of employees (just being foreign probably doesn’t count.)
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/general/seido/josei/kyufukin/index.html
Can’t seem to find any thing that would indicate what the employer needs
to present to Hello Work beyond your Visa Status which would be found in
your Passport or on you Gaijin card. I haven’t seen the forms that
an employer has to fill out, though. Those *might* have a Nenkin number
requirement but I doubt it.
@Hoofin
I did my homework and yes I was able to confirm everything you wrote in post #52. Actually, there was one thing that I was unable to verify. Kousei nenkin includes health insurance (kenkou hoken)? As per your Pasona example and my own experience, health insurance is separated from kousei nenkin. My question would be, why would a company choose to get additional health insurance if it is already part of the benefits received for being part of the kousei system? It seems that that would just cost an employer more money that could be considered an unnecessary expense. And I just remembered, I quit a company after 3 months when they refused to enroll me in health insurance but were deducting kousei nenkin fees. Or is something else happening here?
@JP
Kousei nenki and kenkou hoken are indeed seperate. I am not sure where you got
the idea that one was included in the other.
As such, going with another carrier for kenkou hoken isn’t a waste for
the company and can actually save money for the company and employee by
NOT using the government supplied kenkou hoken.
@JP:
The catchall phrase is “Shakai Hoken” (social insurance, or “SH).
If I had said that Kousei Nenkin included the health portion, then I misspoke. I wrote a ton about the issue between here and my personal site, so I might have made the mistake somewhere.
“Shakai Hoken” consists of the employer pension (Kousei Nenkin), and the employer health insurance (which might be called Kousei Kenko Hoken). The national pension is within the employer pension as “Part A” according to the Social Insurance Agency website.
@everyone:
By the way, it’s my understanding that Koyou Hoken (unemployment insurance) is entirely separate from the catch-all Shakai Hoken. SH includes the parts mentioned above, but NOT the koyou hoken.
So to the earlier poster, arguably you can try to enroll in koyou hoken without setting off any fireworks about SH.
Doug, re #35,
The law is 健康保険法.
You can read the law (in Japanese) from here.
http://law.e-gov.go.jp/cgi-bin/idxsearch.cgi
In general, if you employ 5 people or more, you have to provide your employees with kenko hoken coverage, but there are exceptions. See article 3.
I would recommend the following page than reading the law.
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/ehi.html
Hi Chuckers –
Thanks again for helping me collect the proper motivational tools.
I will let him know about that 6-month prison term (God forbid).
And I will simply remind him that Koyou and Nenkin are seperate.
I’ve always been enrolled in Koyou without Nenkin, it must be so.
I’m glad to get confirmation that my experience matches reality.
I already gave him my Koyou “card”, he simply needs to submit it.
After he submits my card to Hello Work, they’ll print up a new one.
(I will post an update later – about whether he actually submits it.)
OK, thanks again for having spent time/energy helping a stranger.
Hi Everyone – a more relevant question, which we all need to know:
Does the new law state Kenkou Hoken is enough for visa renewal?
Or does the new law require Health PLUS Pension for visa renewal?
@Josh
You`re right. I was thinking about the same thing. Foreign Clinics may have two choices IMO
1. [accept] NHI
2. rely only on short term expat and embassy employees
my private insurance is full coverage (in-/out-patient). From next year as additional insurance one can take the one which covers you 100% in case you are admitted to hospital (cheaper in-patient only).
It goes both ways. Cheap ass eikaiwa companies such as Peppy Kids Club, iTTTi Japan, Geos… should stop taking advantage of foreign workers on stupid one year contracts and provide more stable employment with national health insurance, shakai hoken.. and the cheap ass teachers ahould’ve enrolled into NHI which costs a little more than the cheap health insurance advertised in the Metropolis magazine. The Eikaiwas didn’t tell us workers about enrolling into the NHI when we first started for their crappy companies. Hard working teachers put in more than 29.5 hours per week. The Labor Law Office should investigate some of these illegal companies…
Steve:
The law stipulates that all full time employees must be enrolled in Shakai Hoken. Shakai Hoken includes Health and Pension. THEY CANNOT BE LEGALLY SEPARATED. That said, in order to work at an eikaiwa LEGALLY, one must be hired on a full time basis. This is the law, and the very law that the eikaiwas have been flouting for all these years. If any eikaiwa teacher looks at their Gaikokujin Torokushomeisho (Gaijin Card), it will say 英語教師 (Eigo Kyoshi) on it. This is important, because the term “教師” identifies in no uncertain terms that the job the card carrier was hired for was indeed for a full time position as a teacher. A part time teacher would be referred to as a 嘱託講師 (Shokutaku Koushi).
If the law stays as is, subscribing only to private insurance will not be sufficient enough to renew your visa. No one knows how the enforcement of this up until now ignored yet long standing law will affect Spousal and PR visa holders.
Refer to:
http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/nyukan70.html
While the guidelines listed above do apparently state you
need to be enrolled in Shakai Hoken (both Nenkin and Kenkou
Hoken) WHERE required (that last bit is a bit vauge.
Probably means if you are employeed, you need to be in Nenkin
but if you are a student etc, Kenkou Hoken is sufficient) it
also states they will only require you to show your health
insurance card.
Hopefully, they won’t require you to show your pension book
as well. While I always have my health card with me, my pension
book is in a lock box at home.
It is also unclear whether or not re-entry permits will require
you to show your health card or not.
With Kokumin Kenko Hoken, I believe you do not receive any salary compensation if you are off sick from work. But with shakai hoken, is it true that you can receive some salary compensation? If so, this is another reason I wish my company would put its employees on shakai hoken.
Hi James N –
Thank you for explaining about Shakai Hoken so clearly for me and everyone.
I understand that old Shakai Hoken law states all full time employees must be enrolled in Shakai Hoken, and how many companies refuse to comply.
The VITAL question remains unanswered, about this NEW visa renewal law that goes into effect from April 2010, for those whose companies refuse to obey that old Shakai Hoken law:
Does this new visa renewal law state that from April 2010 to avoid deportation we merely need to show proof of enrollment in Kokumin Kenkou Hoken?
Or does this new visa renewal law state that from April 2010 to avoid deportation we must show proof of enrollment in BOTH Kokumin Kenkou Hoken AND Kokumin Nenkin Hoken?
The article by Jenny Uechi posted above doesn’t answer this question, because it describes the new requirement in 2 differing ways:
“…enrolled in one of Japan’s national health AND pension programs?”
“…show proof of enrollment in (just) Japan’s health insurance program.”
So, which is it?
Before we all get deported next April, we should find out the answer to this vital question.
Hi Everyone –
OK, I found the official Ministry of Japan page with this new visa renewal law:
http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/nyukan70.html
It seems that proof of Japan’s HOKEN enrollment is all that is needed (whether it be Shakai Hoken through your employer, or Kokumin Kenkou Hoken paid for by yourself.)
It seems that if we choose the Kokumin Kenkou Hoken option, this new visa renewal law DOES NOT require us to also join Kokumin Nenkin.
@Behan
Refer here with regards to Health Insurance:
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/ehi.html
Here for Japanese:
http://www.kyoukaikenpo.or.jp/8,271,25.html
Health insurance can cover some of your salary in the event
of hospitilisation due to illness/injury. Nenkin can provide
you with disability payments if you are unable to work:
Here for self employed persons:
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/np.html
Here for people working for a copmany:
http://www.sia.go.jp/e/epi.html
Those documents are about 2 years old and may NOT reflect current
laws. English translations are probably low on the list of priorities.
This is a really convoluted issue and it is being made more
complex by similar terms being bandied about that are often NOT
interchangeable.
I am, by know means an expert on this and even most Japanese find the
whole thing a bit convoluted based on the number of tv variety shows
explaining how things are meant to be when the Nenkin Problems exploded
a few Prime Ministers ago.
Let’s try to recap.
Shakai Hoken (社会保険）
– Catch all phrase that refers to the Social Insuarance (Security) system.
It includes Kenkou Hoken (健康保険i.e. Health Insurance) and
Nenkin（年金,i.e. Pension)
Everyone is REQUIRED to be enrolled in Shakai Hoken in some form or other.
That means Kenkou Hoken (Health Inusurance) AND Nenkin (Pension.)
This is the law. Many people are skirting around this and not paying one
or the other (or either.) Pension is probably the easiest one that goes
missing as there are fewer checks. Lack of Health Insurance would quickly
get noticed unless you never ever get sick.
Kenkou Hoken (健康保険）
– Health Insurance. Again, required to have. This is especially
important for foreigners now because from April 2010, you will be required
to show you health insurance card for visa renewals (thus, this article.)
It provides 70% of the costs of doctor visits as well as 70% of
the cost for prescription medication for you and your family. It also
provides a meal allowance for hospital stays as well as some salary
coverage if you are unable to work. There is the generic, government
provided one that anyone can join and can be applied for at your
ward/city office. There are often company provided plans though various
groups that provide cheaper premiums and better benefits (e.g. ability to
stay at various hotels at a discount, discounts on gym club memberships etc.)
The level of health care doesn’t change as you are still going to the same
hospitals. You usually have one or the other. Some companies don’t
have a seperate plan and just use the generic government supplied one for
their employees. Premiums are based on salary.
Nenkin (年金）
– Pension. There are 2 types for this: Kokumin Nenkin (国民年金）
and Kousei Nenki (厚生年金）. Part of Shakai Hoken.
Kokumin Nenkin is required for everyone. It is mostly used to refer
to the pension plan for Self Employed (or unemployed) persons between
the ages of 20 and 65. Costs JPY 14 660 per month (will continue to
increase.) Allows for disability as well as a widows benefit (although
not a widowers benefit) for the wife and any children under the age
of 18 (20 if the child has a level of disability.)
Kousei Nenkin is the Employee Pension which only company employees
can join. It is required for all companies to provide that have
5 or more employees (you can join it if you want if your company
has less than 5.) It sits on top of Kokumin Nenkin as an additional
benefit for company works and provides a much better retirement benefit
but, naturally, has a higher premium. That higher premium is offset
by the employer paying half and the worker paying half. The premium
is based on your income (and will increase as the years go by.)
There are also other types of pension schemes that don’t really need
to be worried about: goverment worker pensions (naturally, this
doesn’t apply to NJ) as well as Kikin（基金pension funds) which
are added bonuses to the pension benefit for a small additional
premium. Available in Kokumin and Kousei Nenkin varieties.
Not seeing a benefit to the pension scheme is not an excuse for
skirting the law. If one doesn’t think one will be going to
collect a Japanese pension due to a minimal stay in the country,
perhaps one should be lobbying one’s home country for a totalisation
agreement if it doesn’t have one in place already (US, UK, Germany
have them with other countries due at some point with varying degrees
of “totalisation.”) You are allowed to claim up to 3 years refund if
you leave Japan and decide not to remain in the pension scheme (less
taxes and payable to a certain maximum amount. Must be claimed within
2 years(?) of leaving Japan.)
In summation: Legally, you are required to have both health insurance
and be part of a pension plan. Either join both on your own or encourage
your employer to sign you up for the equivalent of each. That keeps
both you and your employer legal. It also helps those of us that have
been paying into the system for so long already. Some of us intend to
collect a Japanese pension even if we don’t necessarily intend to retire
here.
Hi Chuckers
Good summary.
Yes, legally, we should join pension.
I’m just releived to know this new visa renewal law doesn’t require that.
I now notice someone at mutantfrog also thought about this, and came to the same conclusion.
“…these regulations refer only to the health system, and it does not seem that non-registration in the pension scheme will have any effect on visa renewals.”
http://www.mutantfrog.com/2009/06/01/important-japan-visa-rule-update/
I think I would rather to continue not paying into pension, but I will take into consideration what you said about helping others, as well as the legal ramifications.
By the way, if you do pay into pension, it seems you might want to take a little holiday every 3 years if you want to receive that (capped) Lump Sum Withdrawal Payment “Datai Ichijikin”.
>By the way, if you do pay into pension, it seems you might want to take a little holiday every 3 years if you want to receive that (capped) Lump Sum Withdrawal Payment “Datai Ichijikin”.
I am a bit beyond the 3 years so doing that would end up costing me
quite a lot.
Add to that, you would need to “find a new job” every 3 years. In an
economy like this, that might not be easy. Even if you think you can
“find a new job” with your current company, they would have to be pretty
understanding to let you pull out and then re-apply for a new work
visa. Re-apply for a spousal visa every 3 years after a confirmed
break would be a real pain, as well (if that applies.) I’d considered
the “vacationing” option previously but decided it was too much
work to make it worthwhile.
Plus, pulling out every 3 years means you still aren’t making points
with getting a pension in anywhere (Japan or home country if there
is an equalisation treaty in place.) If you are independently wealthy
and don’t need to worry about your golden years, more power to you.
I intend to use the pension to help supplement mine. It won’t likely be
enough to live on but at least it should provide food for the table.
4 things I learned from this thread:
Kokumin Kenkou is separate from Nenkin.
Koyou Hoken is separate from Nenkin.
Nenkin is not required for visa renewal.
I am relieved I’m in Kokumin Kenkou.
🙂
I belatedly notice that Chuckers was the first to post the visa renewal law MOJ link.
http://www.debito.org/?p=4026&cpage=2#comment-181346
The sentence to remember about the new visa renewal law is:
平成２２（２０１０）年４月１日以降は，申請の際に窓口で健康保険証の提示を求めることとなります。
We are only required to show our proof of enrollment in Kenkou Hoken.
http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/nyukan70-1.pdf
So you have 2 choices:
A.) Push your employers to enroll you in Shakai Hoken (without getting fired, good luck.)
B.) Simply enroll yourself in Kokumin Kenkou Hoken (which from now on we can jokingly refer to as “VISA RENEWAL INSURANCE”.)
🙂
One other thing I forgot to mention to Steve.
Hello Work will allow you to verify that you are indeed enrolled in
Koyou Hoken. This is to make sure that some shady businesses don’t
screw their employees.
You have to fill out some paperwork (naturally) and provide some
ID and address verification (driver’s license, health insurance card,
likely Gaijin card) and they will send you your status via registered mail.
Section 4 of this page:
http://www.mhlw.go.jp/general/seido/anteikyoku/koyouhoken/index.html
http://www.moj.go.jp/NYUKAN/nyukan70.html
I believe your interpretations may be off a bit. Or subject to another reading
The above website mentions the valid insurance card as a requirement. But in both cases where its mentioned, they focus on “Number Eight” (social insurance requirement).
First, it says: なお，８の社会保険制度の加入については，平成２２（２０１０）年４月１日以降申請時に窓口において保険証の提示を求めることとしています。
I read that first long clause to mean “concerning the (requirement) in Number 8 about becoming a member of the social insurance system(s). . .” The website is listing eight requirements about visa renewals.
Number 8 itself says:
８ 社会保険に加入していること
社会保険への加入義務がある場合には，当該義務を履行していることが必要です。
なお，平成２２（２０１０）年４月１日以降は，申請の際に窓口で健康保険証の提示を求めることとなります。
That first line under the caption reads: “When there is duty to participate in social insurance, it is necessary to carry out the duty concerned.” Then it goes on to say about how starting next April you are going to be asked for an insurance card.
There is nothing in that website page to suggest that it’s “OK” not be enrolled in the pension program of Kokumin nenkin. In fact, the strong indication is that if it is a duty, then you are supposed to be in. The Ministry is only emphasizing that they will be asking for proof of health insurance.
That’s just my reading, and I don’t really read Japanese well.
You should also know that starting January 2010, the Social Insurance Agency will disband and another agency will be responsible for social insurance administration.
You see, the Social Insurance Agency is going away:
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/perspectives/newsnavigator/archive/news/2009/07/20090709p2a00m0na004000c.html
There is no saying how the new “Japan Pension Agency” will handle things. And there is an election between now and next January, which could change things even more.
Thanks Steve abd Chuckers for providing that useful info. Luckily I’m enrolled in both and I don’t see cheap and stingy Eikaiwa/ALT employers enrolling everyone onto Shakai hoken. They’ve always found a way around the law.
I see they have included that reminder
about “if you have a duty to participate
then it is necessary to carry out the duty.”
Yeah, I agree, we should carry out duties,
especially if we happen to have that duty,
but, they are only demanding health cards.
Example, driving 5 kph over the limit is illegal,
but if a new law only punishes 10 over the limit,
many folks will continue to drive 5 over the limit.
If they were gonna require pension proof as well,
then they would have written something like this:
健康保険証 と年金険証 の提示を求めること
So, I see pension as analogous to paying NHK,
you should pay, of course, but many folks refuse,
since the current reality is: no enforcement – yet.
If someday they begin enforcement, then we pay.
Since most governments have proven themselves to be totally
incapable of refraining from spending the initial pension funds,
(then creating guilt for each next generation to replace that loss)
many citizens and residents choose to handle their own savings.
@Steve:
No, it’s a little different. The Ministry is specifically saying it will look for proof of enrollment in a Japanese health plan.
They are silent as to the other part of social insurance (the pension). But they do say the social insurances you have a duty to pay are considered factors (Number Eight). NHK fees are not social insurance.
It depends on the new Japan Pension Agency (January 2010). And what the new government does whoever takes office next month.
What happens when people get asked for proof of nenkin enrollment under Number Eight? Are they going to say “sorry, you can’t ask me about that. Just the insurance card?”
Good luck.
Sure, there are things you can get away with. But that always involves some risk.
>What happens when people get asked for proof of nenkin enrollment under Number Eight? Are they going to say “sorry, you can’t ask me about that. Just the insurance card?”
Which is why I am hoping they aren’t going to make us carry our Nenkin books
around as well.
The next time I have to go out to Immigration, though, I will be sure to
take my Nenkin book, just in case.
I am also hoping that they don’t want to see these things when you apply for
a re-entry permit. That would be even MORE tedious.
If immigration were to start demanding proof of nenkin enrollment (which this new law does NOT state must be shown) then at that stage one would answer “OK, I’ll go get that,” and you immediately go to your local city hall and give some of your hard-earned-money to the government for proof of nenkin enrollment (best case just one month, worst case 2 years worth of back pay – all depending on the mood of the bureaucrat you’re dealing with that day factored by your ability to come back later and try again with a different bureaucrat.)
Look, this new law says “We’re gonna start asking for proof of Hoken enrollment 保険証.” Sorry, that’s not going to scare strong intelligent people into purchasing proof of Nenkin enrollment in advance yet.
Maybe someday they will actually write a strong intelligent new law that will state a new requirement of showing proof of pension.
Like, 平成２２（２０２２）年４月１日以降は，健康保険証 と年金険証 の提示を求めることとなります。
Until then, in my opinion, pension is still analogous to paying NHK.
🙂
Even though it is not specified, I too will probably bring my nenkin techō the next time that I go to immigrations. However, as nenkin records are entirely computerized now and no longer kept in the booklet, it will be mostly blank for most people. What you can do is go to your local tax office and request a 被保険者記録照会回答票 (hihokensha kiroku shōkai kaitō-hyō). It is free and contains a summary of your pension details, such as how many months you have payed for. Again not necessary, but going the extra way with immigrations really can’t hurt.
Yes, the Nenkin booklet is pretty much blank. It looks like they
should update it with all of your changes of status (from student
to salaryman or self-employed to married to whatever) but I don’t
think they bother any more. It is basically just a way of recording
your number and wasting paper.
I have been meaning to write down in it my various enrollments as
indicated by the Neknin Tokubetsu-bin mail that came a few months
ago but haven’t got around to it yet.
Since it doesn’t seem to be updated, one would think it would be
really easy for them to replace it with an ID card to go along with
the Kenkou Hoken card (which also used to be a 3-fold slip of cardboard.)
That might be one of the things on the agenda when the SIA goes away
next year and is replaced by something else.
All those not paying Nenkin now had better be prepared for that
eventuality and either start paying up or start packing up.
@Steve
I appreciate that this thing might be going around in circles, based off two differing opinions.
I just want to point out that simply because they don’t specifically ask for something, doesn’t mean immigration won’t look for it.
It’s well known, they can check tax arrearages. What makes you think they won’t be able to check pension arrearages? All you point to is that they want to see an insurance card. Maybe immigration doesn’t have access to insurance enrollment?
I appreciate that many people want to get away with whatever they got away with before. And maybe they will.
I’m just saying it will be one lonely yell the day that someone’s renewal gets turned down because the new Japan Pension Agency (January 2010) has no record that they ever paid anything in.
I think people who want a very narrow reading of what the Ministry said are kidding themselves if they think that’s the only reading out of it. Especially with this new agency appearing in January.
Like I say, good luck to those that try and wing it.
Thanks
Just want to thank some of the posters here for some very good information. Sorry I could not reply sooner as I was away on a fishing/camping trip
This has been one of the most constructive and informative debates/sharing of information I have seen on this board
I am still of the opinion the Japanese system is not for me (or other foreign employees) but is best for Japanese or those that have naturalized or for other reasons will remain in Japan for a very long time. I also believe my Japanese employees are not interested (perhaps are skeptical of) private plans. Seens that generally their wives drive this decision and tend to stick with what has been traditionally accepted as the path with least risk (real or perceived).
Anyway depending on what immigration decides to do with this law I have some information I did not have before.
Thanks again!
“…either start paying up or start packing up.”
Or, just choose the relatively cheaper third option:
wait and see if immigration asks for nenkin proof,
and THEN, only then, go pay as little as possible.
🙂
@Hoofin (as well as everyone else who shared good advice)
I changed my mind, you are correct, thank you for your advice.
From April, people not paying pension will not receive new visas.
If my company refuses to pay half, I will simply pay 100% myself.
I will begin paying the new agency from January 2010, absolutely.
Sure would be great if we didn’t have to – but – the law is the law.
Hoofin posted 13 good posts on this page, and then I read further:
http://www.debito.org/?p=4178#comment-182033
http://hoofin.wordpress.com/2009/08/22/do-i-have-to-join-the-japanese-pension-system-an-update/
http://hoofin.wordpress.com/category/japanese-pension-system/page/2/
http://hoofin.wordpress.com/category/japanese-pension-system/page/3/
Thanks for your altruistic advice – to help us avoid deportation.
PS – I also want to thank you for sharing this other link as well:
http://www.dpj.or.jp/english/manifesto/manifesto2009.pdf
I suddenly have become a strong supporter of the DPJ “Manifesto”.
I never trust rulers, but I sure hope they implement those ideas.
To Steve (and all others)
First time commenter long time reader. I’ve been following this issue on both debito.org and on hoofin and I need to point out one thing. In your comment you stated that you would start paying as of January 2010. I would suggest that you start paying now.
I recently joined the national health insurance and was forced to make back payments to July of 2008 which is when I left my full-time job in Tokyo. When I recently joined the national health I did not also join the pension, that was a mistake which i am promptly going to fix. I have also learned of a woman who was told she would have to make up to a maximum of 2 years of back payments if she were to now join the Pension system.
It seems that no matter what the local ward offices are sticking to the policy of making people pay back payments of up to 2 years. Doesn’t matter if it’s Health or Pension. The back payments for the Health hurt more becauser they make us think of all that medical treatment we could have had but didn’t. The pension hurts less because we didn’t lose anything by not making the payments. However, since you will be forced to make 2 years of back payments it doesn’t matter if you start paying in January or now – you’ll still have to pay 2 years back. I’d suggest going to the ward office now and POSSIBLY slipping through the cracks. That’s what I’m going to do. Seems much less likely that you’d be able to slip through the cracks in January after the ward officials have dealt with this issue hundreds of times.
Hopefully in both of our cases we will slip through the cracks and only have to pay the Pension going forward. Worst case scenario for you … you’ll have to pay 2 years back. Worst case scenario for me I’ll have to pay back to July of 2008 when I left my full time job and got dumped from the Shakai Hoken system (and should have subsequently joined the National Health and Pension).
Keep in mind that payments due for Nenkin will be increasing every year
by JPY 280 until it peaks at JPY 16 900 per month in the year 2017
(Heisei 29.)
Low income persons can look into a Pension exemption of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or
even full exemption. The size of the exemption will depend on your income
and the number of mouths you have to feed at home.
There are also (small) discounts for paying 6-months or 1-year in advance
rather than paying every month.
Update on my last comment. Got a letter from the City of Yokohama today demanding that I make all back payments due on my pension to July of 2008. For those of you who are thinking that this isn’t really happening or that you won’t really have to join the H. Insurance and Pension to get your visa renewed I have just 2 words … wake up.
@Dave,
I just wonder that, the government usually gives everyone 2 years to make an individual coupon payment. It looks like it says so right on the coupon.
Are they asking for the post July 2008 payments right away, or before July 2010 (Aug. 2010), etc.?
I seem to recall that the law itself may pass in 2010, but that it really won’t take effect until 3 years later. This might have something to do with people having a 3-year visa, and giving them time to get on NHI. Has anyone else heard this schedule?
As for the original article, I am a bit disappointed in at least one statement, the one citing that so many foreigners do not have the insurance plan in question. Shoddy research or poorly documented research. Let me quote:
“However, the reality is that most foreigners in Japan do not have either form of insurance. For example, a 2004 survey by Hiroshi Kojima of the National Institute of Population and Social Security Research found that only 28.3 percent of Japanese Brazilians in Iwata City, Shizuoka Pref., had any kind of health insurance, and that of these only a third were enrolled in shakai hoken. Another survey in 2009 found that just one out of 27 manufacturing companies had enrolled its foreign employees in workers’ compensation, leaving thousands of foreigners ineligible for any form of assistance when the economic downturn hit Japan last year, leading to mass layoffs.”
So, the author cites a 5-year-old survey on Brazilians in one city. Hmm. And, as for the 2009 survey, where are the details or a link?
The article also mentioned that part-timers are obligated to be on NHI if they are there more than 2 months:
“companies legally have to enroll part-timers if they have been working for the firm more than two months”
Can anyone verify this? It only seems to apply if you work more than the illustrious 29.5 hours/week, but the article sure didn’t write it that way.
HO wrote:
“If an employer fails to insure his/her employee with kenko hoken, s/he shall be punished by 6 month in prison and a fine of 500,000 yen.”
Where did you get that, please?
Just a couple of comments here to close.
1. Immigration wants to be the ones to handle all matters concerning visas now. Perhaps that will actually be a good thing ONLY in terms of the following: I would think that when a foreigner signs up for an alien registration card, the ward office should take responsibility to determine what kind of insurance plan they are on. I signed up for my ARC and NHI simultaneously ages ago without any advice from the office, only from the coworker who brought me to the ward office. If immigration will be in charge of things from now on, perhaps that will be enforced more strictly. Since many foreigners were clueless about needing to sign up, it only makes fair sense to allow some sort of amnesty, as mentioned earlier.
2. Since many foreigners were clueless about needing to sign up, it only makes fair sense to allow some sort of amnesty, as mentioned earlier. The truth is, very little information has been released on this whole topic of visa renewal, and lots of public speculation has been generated. Be careful about spreading rumors.
3. In trying to read up more on the kokumin plan, I just noticed that the site is down, citing “under maintenance”. http://www.kokuho.or.jp/english/index.htm Coincidence?
I know this is an old post, however this web link, petitioning for eliminating the requirement that foreigners join the NHI, was forwarded to me by a friend. Please take a look at this link and if you agree with the points presented consider signing the petition. Also please forward this link to as many people as you can.
http://www.freechoice.jp/
This group is not trying to change anything about the existing NHI in Japan. This group also advocates requiring foreigners in Japan to have insurance (so as not to be a burden on society). This group only wishes that foreigners in Japan, because of many of our unique situations, be allowed to use private health insurance.
The newly elected Democratic Party of Japan is very open to reversing this decision and allowing foreigners to use private insurance.
The potential costs to foreign companies in Japan, including international schools, is huge, especially if foreigners renewing their visas are required to pay 2 or 3 years “back payments” on insurance premiums. A friend of mine at a large international company in Japan also told me that this new law was one of the reasons (not the only) that their East Asian headquarters and much of their R&D was moved out of Japan. This resulting in a very large loss of tax revenue and of course a loss of jobs for Japanese nationals. The net benefit to Japan in this case was a huge negative. One of the international schools in Japan indicated that the costs of this law could be “devastating”.
If you agree with the contents, please consider signing this petition and forwarding this on to others.
Thanks
AVOIDING BACK PAYMENT PENALTIES…
The solution is relatively simple and I just completed it myself. The answer is MOVE CITIES. Well, not in reality, just on paper.
My city wanted two years back payment (a substantial sum)for the health plan. I argued against payment until I was read in the face. Having private insurance (with proof) the entire time I resided in Japan was not convincing enough to municipal employees that I had NOT been milking the system. Frustrated, I obtained the paperwork needed to change address to a neighboring city. I “moved” to my friends address in a neighboring town, registered for insurance in that town with NO PENALTY (since I was viewed as a NEW resident). Once the paperwork was through and I had card in hand, I reversed the procedure and “moved” back to my house.
No raised eyebrows, no questions, no back payments. It seems municipalities do not communicate with each other very well on this issue, a lucky break.
I am confused. Back in early August when this first broke, I went down to my local city hall to verify that I was fine. I have pension (kousen nenkin) and health insurance through my company. City hall thought that it was fine, but they really could not comment authoritatively on upcoming immigration policies. (The person that I spoke with was not even aware of the policy change.)
Jon, if you have (had?) private (=company?) insurance, then why do you need to transition to the national system? In what way was your private insurance incompatible with immigration requirements?
I am under the impression that valid company-provided health insurance should be sufficient. Am I mistaken? Many companies provide health insurance, and it seems wasteful to pay into two systems at the same time.
Mumei,
I changed from private (Global Health Care) to national at the request of my spouse. She seems to think this will make our lives in Japan easier. I do have PR and to my understanding the visa connection would not have effected me.
I have never had to use the private insurance so I cannot comment on its performance. I had a 5000 yen deductable on any claim and in my years in Japan have never needed medical attention exceeding that (with the exception of routine medical examinations which are paid through our company).
Anyhow, I changed because keeping my wife happy seemed more important than retaining the private insurance.
The last few posts are arguing around what the Japanese have clearly stated.
You are all making an assumption, and it is the fatal flaw.
The Japanese kokumin kenko hoken (National Health Insurance) is priced based on a SLIDING SCALE. This means, that the more you earn, the more you contribute to the health insurance system.
So in this sense, kokumin kenko hoken is PART premium and PART progressive tax.
(You get a tax deduction for the premium. But it is still a progressive tax.)
What you are doing by your online petitions and “hey who are we hurting?” arguments is to suggest that as long as you cover a PREMIUM part of your costs, the Japanese government should simply ignore the fact that you are EVADING (not AVOIDING, but actually cheating) on the progressive tax aspect of both, or either, shakai hoken and/or kokumin kenko hoken.
You want to free ride, basically. The system is set up to provide a health system where the users (the residents of Japan) pay based on a sliding-income scale to support the system. And then, there is a user fee that is 30% of the visit, prescription, etc.
If you’ve ever gotten a Japanese health system bill, it’s clear that the 30%—-and even the 100%—-doesn’t even really cover the cost to serve the patient.
I had a dental exam and cleaning that was $18. Full cost was $60. For the number of workers at the dental clinic, the rent of the location, the equipment, and to pay the dentist (who went to Penn in America), I doubt the full cost of the visit was $60. The other money was coming out of the overall shakai hoken and kokumin kenko hoken systems.
If you are going to make these presentations to the government, please be honest about how Japan is actually funding the health care system.
Let’s noe pretend it is the same as America’s current debate about Public Option versus private insurers. It clearly is not!
@Mumei,
The confusion arises because people confuse the “gap” insurers with the company insurance under Shakai Hoken. They say that Shakai Hoken is “private” because it is being provided via an employment relationship. But it is not private as in “for profit”—it is a highly-regulated nonprofit cooperative that is permitted in place of National Health Insurance.
When people are running a financial scam of any time, confusion is their best friend.
As I explain link here, http://wp.me/pAT5P-RQ the bottom line is that anything other than Shakai Hoken or Kokumin Kenko Hoken enrollment for residents in Japan is illegal. And the matter has only been how hard the Japanese government has pressed on its own laws . . .
Good luck to the protesters. Hope the government doesn’t make a list . . .
@Hoofin To answer your question, I did not intend to imply that I was required to make payment for everything all at once. I was permitted to have a “payment plan” as it were for the back-payments. However, this option was only extended when I politely pointed out to the prefectural employee that the payment coupon itself allowed for payment up to 2 years later. Interestingly, when I initially requested the payment plan option it was denied and I was told that I would have to pay everything at once.
Hope that clears things up.
–[Sorry, I think your comment got thrown out with the spam. Getting a lot lately. Apologies.]
You dont have to pay back payments just change your address to different city and enroll health
insurance there. Borrow address from your friends.
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