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  • Nikkei Portuguese newspaper Jornal Tudo Bem: Partial Pensions denied NJ who don’t pay in full 24 years

    Posted by Dr. ARUDOU, Debito on May 29th, 2008

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    Hi Blog.  Got this message from a friend, “Shinrin Woods”, who reads Portuguese (I don’t, sorry).  His translation of the points of an article (which you can find in its entirety at the bottom of the page):

    ========================

    Hi Debito,

    The front page of weekly Portuguese-Language newspaper “Jornal Tudo Bem (EDITION 793 This week)”  points out to a quite disturbing issue facing many foreigners who want to collect retirement (Aposentadoria) benefits in Japan… The point is (below)

    Shakai Hoken não garante aposentadoria

    http://tudobem.uol.com.br/2008/05/24/shakai-hoken-nao-garante-aposentadoria

    [Full article in Portuguese at the bottom of this blog entry.]

    - If a Japanese “Citizen” pays for 25 years he gets all of it.

    - If a Japanese “Citizen” pays for 24 years he gets a little bit less.

    - If a Japanese “Citizen” pays for 10 years he gets less than half of it… Everything FAIR ENOUGH ! Deshou !

    BUT…

    If a Gaijin “Citizen” pays for 25 years he gets all of it.

    If a Gaijin “Citizen” pays for 24 years he gets NOTHING…

    I have talked to some Japanese about it, but nobody could tell me if it is the reality or not. 

    Do you know something about it ? 

    The image “http://jbchost.com.br/tudobem/imgmat/edicoes/edicao_793.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

    ========================

    COMMENT:  I asked Administrative Solicitor, consultant on Immigration issues, and co-author of HANDBOOK FOR NEWCOMERS, MIGRANTS, AND IMMIGRANTS Akira Higuchi about this.  Here is his reply:

    ========================

    The nationality doesn’t matter if you live in Japan.  I.e. If you have paid for 25 + years, you will be entitled to kokumin nenkin regardless of nationality. If not, you will not be entitled, this is same for Japanese.

    But there are complicated rules on how to count 25 years.

    Plus there have been many changes to the laws and NJ couldn’t join the scheme in the past. I don’t know if the article is talking about this.

    Also, if you are in Japan and reach 60 but haven’t paid for 25, you can keep paying the premium (nini kanyu) until you reach 70. This way you will be entitled to receive pension.

    ========================

    Thanks Akira.  I hope we can get a final clarification on this somehow–one would expect the media would double-check their data before putting something on the front page…  Arudou Debito

    ========================

    ARTICLE IN PORTUGUESE FOLLOWS:

    ========================

    Comunidade

    Shakai Hoken não garante aposentadoria

    Mesmo fazendo a contribuição para o plano de previdência, brasileiros podem não receber o benefício como os japoneses

    por Claudio Endo
    24.05.2008

    Recentemente, muitos brasileiros estão sendo inscritos nos planos de seguro social e previdência da empresa (shakai hoken), por exigência das fábricas, e uma boa parte já contribui para o seguro nacional de saúde (kokumin kenko hoken), cuja administração é feita pelas prefeituras.

    Com base nisso, é bom saber que os estrangeiros que planejam ficar definitivamente no Japão, de uma forma geral, não têm direito a receber a “aposentadoria incompleta”, benefício concedido para quem contribuiu por menos tempo que os 25 anos obrigatórios. Já os japoneses têm direito de receber essa aposentadoria.

    Segundo o escritório do Shakai Hoken da região oeste, em Hamamatsu (Shizuoka), o que faz um japonês receber a aposentadoria incompleta é a validade do kara kikan (período vazio). Ou seja, o tempo que ele deixou de contribuir para a previdência social por algum motivo. No entanto, o kara kikan não se aplica ao estrangeiro no período em que ele viveu no Japão, ou que ainda vai viver, sem estar inscrito no shakai hoken ou kokumin kenko hoken.

    Por exemplo, um brasileiro veio ao Japão com 20 anos e trabalhou outros 20 sem estar inscrito no seguro. Agora, aos 40, ele entra no shakai hoken e quando completar 65 anos terá contribuído por 25. Nesse caso, ele terá direito à aposentadoria, mas se nesse período de 25 anos a pessoa deixar de contribuir por algum tempo – que seja dez anos – por trabalhar em uma empresa que não oferecia o shakai hoken, perde o benefício sem ter nem mesmo direito aos 15 anos que pagou.

    Leia mais na edição 793 do jornal Tudo Bem.

    ========================

    ENDS

     

    10 Responses to “Nikkei Portuguese newspaper Jornal Tudo Bem: Partial Pensions denied NJ who don’t pay in full 24 years”

    1. Amir Says:

      As I know, there should be 25 years payment and you should be 65 years old. but there are secrets which unfortunately are kept away from foreigners.
      First, after finding job in Japan after graduation, immediately include your student time based on social pension scheme and pay the permuim, so you will add several years to your payment record .
      Second, even if you leave japan and you have PR continue to pay your pension or if there is a pension treaty between next country and Japan
      , may be it is possible to continue to pay to japan pension scheme, replace of your ocuntry.
      Third one, I don’t think many of us will receive anything after 2020~ as pension.they have already 8 trillion$ public debt(Mostly related to future pension payments) for a country without any natural resource , degrading human resource. Think about another investment.

    2. HO Says:

      This page by Japan’s Social Insurance Agency may help clear some misunderstanding.
      http://www.sia.go.jp/e/np.html#ben

      To get the full benefit, an insured must pay full 40 years (or 480 months) from age 20 to 60. If the insured pays 25 years (or 300 months) or more but less than 40 years, the benefit is discounted proportionally. This rule applies to both Japanese and non-Japanese.

      If the insured pays less than 25 years, he cannot collect annual pension. This rule also applies to both Japanese and non-Japanese.

      If the insured is a non-Japanese and leaves Japan before paying 25 years, he can collect “Lump-sum Withdrawal Payments”, although the amount is small. This benefit is only applicable to non-Japanese.
      See the section “Lump-sum Withdrawal Payments (Exclusively for Non-Japanese Citizens)” in the above page.

      These are the rules about Kokumin Nenkin. For those who are covered by Kousei Nenkin, 1 year contribution is enough to collect benefit.

    3. Drew Says:

      As a foreigner, the pension system really gets my goat. I am forced to pay into it (and my company has to pay the same amount; money that could be going straight to me), but I only get three years contributions back if I leave. It’s like the government specifically chose that limit — “If you stay longer than three years, you’re not really welcome, so we’ll just take your money instead”.

    4. HO Says:

      I found the 25-year rule is not a problem for naturalized citizens and permanent residents.
      http://www.sia.go.jp/infom/text/kokunen07.pdf
      On page 60, “日本に帰化した者、永住許可を受けた者などの海外在住期間(20歳~59歳)” “the period outside Japan for naturalized citizens and permanent residents between age 20 and 59″ is “合算対象期間” “countable period” toward 25 year rule. The years outside Japan before naturalization or obtaining permanent residency status are automatically counted toward 25-year rule. But the period is not reflected in the amount of annuity benefit, because no actual payment is done during the period.

      For further reference,
      国民年金法改正法 附則(昭和六〇年五月一日法律第三四号)
      第八条5  次の各号に掲げる期間は、国民年金法第十条第一項の規定の適用については国民年金の被保険者期間に、同法附則第九条第一項の規定の適用については合算対象期間に、それぞれ算入する。
      十  昭和三十六年五月一日以後国籍法(昭和二十五年法律第百四十七号)の規定により日本の国籍を取得した者(二十歳に達した日の翌日から六十五歳に達した日の前日までの間に日本の国籍を取得した者に限る。)その他政令で定める者の日本国内に住所を有していた期間であつて、難民の地位に関する条約等への加入に伴う出入国管理令その他関係法律の整備に関する法律(昭和五十六年法律第八十六号)による改正前の国民年金法第七条第一項に該当しなかつたため国民年金の被保険者とならなかつた期間(二十歳に達した日の属する月前の期間及び六十歳に達した日の属する月以後の期間に係るもの並びに第三項に規定する第二項各号に掲げる期間並びに第四号の二、第五号、第七号及び第七号の二に掲げる期間を除く。)
      十一  前号に掲げる者の日本国内に住所を有しなかつた期間(二十歳未満であつた期間及び六十歳以上であつた期間に係るものを除く。)のうち、昭和三十六年四月一日から当該日本の国籍を取得した日の前日(同号に規定する政令で定める者にあつては、政令で定める日)までの期間に係るもの(国民年金の被保険者期間、第三項に規定する第二項各号に掲げる期間並びに第四号の二、第五号、第七号及び第七号の二に掲げる期間を除く。)

      Reform Act of National Pension Act on 1985 May 1.
      Annex Article 8 Paragraph 5.
      The period defined by following items shall be added to “insured period” with regard to article 10 paragraph 1 of National Pension Act and to “countable period” with regard to annex article 9 paragraph 1 of the same act.
      Item 10.
      For a person who obtained Japanese citizenship per Nationality Act after 1961 May 1 (provided he obtained it between age 20 to 64), or a person stipulated by Government Ordinance, the period when he had residence in Japan, provided he was not an insured because article 7 paragraph 1 of National Pension Act before its reform by Law number 86 in 1981 was not applicable to him, provided the period is between his 20 years old and 60 years old of age, and further provided the period excludes the periods stipulated by paragraph 2, and items 4-2, 5, 7 and 7-2.

      Item 11.
      For such a person defined in the previous item, the period he did not have residence in Japan, provided the period is between his 20 years old and 60 years old of age, provided the period is before he obtained Japanese citizenship, or before such date determined by Government Ordinance if Government Ordinance is applicable to him and further provided the period excludes the periods stipulated by paragraph 2, and items 4-2, 5, 7 and 7-2.

      “A person stipulated by Government Ordinance” is a permanent resident. See 国民年金法等の一部を改正する法律の施行に伴う経過措置に関する政令(昭和六十一年三月二十八日政令第五十四号)第十二条第二号.

      –Thanks HO.

    5. Mark in Yayoi Says:

      HO, very helpful post!

      Amir, have you made retroactive contributions for your preiod as a student? How are they calculated (if you have no income)? I’d like to do this as I was here as a student for half a year, and then worked for a company for one year, without participating in the plan. Since I’ll need to collect this in my old age.

      And does anyone know which countries now have bilateral pension treaties with Japan? My company tells me that the US now does, so I don’t have to worry about losing all my contributions if I move back there.

    6. HO Says:

      Mark, this page might help you.
      http://www.sia.go.jp/e/ag.html

      –HO, you’re doing it again. Stoppit. Stop just sending us links without telling the rest of us what they’re for.

    7. STP Says:

      “And does anyone know which countries now have bilateral pension treaties with Japan? My company tells me that the US now does, so I don’t have to worry about losing all my contributions if I move back there.

      Germany, U.K., Korea, U.S., Belgium, France, Canada, Australia, Netherland, and Check.

      http://www.sia.go.jp/seido/kyotei/index.htm

    8. HO Says:

      I am sorry, Debito.
      That was a link to an English language page titled “International Social Security Agreement” by Japan’s Social Insurance Agency which explains the details of international social security agreements between Japan and other countries.
      I thought the page would help answer the questions raised by Mark.

      http://www.sia.go.jp/e/ag.html

    9. Amir Says:

      I don’t know why people want to bet on the limping horse. There wont be social security system within a decade, they have industrial power and money of export else these things will have been afloat long time a go. Rationally they will accept any retroactive payment for unpaid premium even if it is related to couple of years ago, but my opinion is, don’t pay.
      And, if you had to pay several years to the system (like my self), totalizing plan is a good deal. You can transfer your payment history to the next country and if you can make a choice, select a country with open culture, empty land, good natrual resources. If the next country doesn’t have totalizing treaty, continue some years with Japan pension plan so hopefully they sign the treaty.

    10. Amir Says:

      Just to correct my post. I heard from one of my friends that the pension treaty just cover national of treaty countries.It seems a foreigner (third party)are excluded from using these treaties. May be somebody should clarify the issue.

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